Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Moving back or to the UK
Reload this Page >

Uni and international fees

Uni and international fees

Old Jun 30th 2010, 3:55 pm
  #1  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 60
karin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nice
Default Uni and international fees

Hope someone can clarify this for me, as after talking with 2 uni's I am still no clearer.

A friend living in Kuwait plans to send her child home to boarding school for 3 years, in order to qualify for the native fees. They are UK citizens. Meanwhile she and husband and other 2 young children stay in Kuwait.

Now I always assumed that in order to qualify for the native fees the taxpayer (ie parent) had to be resident for the last 3 years, not necessarily the child. So after 3 years of tax contributions, you can avail of the perks of the country, like good cheap uni tuition.

So my question is, is it the parent's or the child's or both residencies that count? Also what would happen if the child were to come home 'short' of a year, and do VSO abroad for a year? If the child is out of the country but you are in, what happens then?

Maybe the reason it is unclear is that every uni has different rules? I just feel a bit uneasy taking an answer over the phone from someone in the fees office so would like to know if anyone has any experience of this at firsthand

Many thanks,
Karin.
karin_and_boys is offline  
Old Jun 30th 2010, 4:21 pm
  #2  
The Kwisatz Haderach
 
Mummy in the foothills's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: North Wales
Posts: 8,080
Mummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond reputeMummy in the foothills has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni and international fees

From what I read you can't have been present in the UK for the previous three years for educational purposes only, as we had thought of sending one of ours to UK for school so he could go onto UK uni at local rates.
So she may still be charged international fees when Uni time comes.
Mummy in the foothills is offline  
Old Jun 30th 2010, 5:29 pm
  #3  
Ping-ponger
 
dunroving's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,001
dunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni and international fees

It's a complicated situation, but generally it seems that the 3 years of being "ordinarily resident" in the UK is pertinent to the person requesting Home Fees status (i.e., the child in this case). Also, as you point out, living in the UK primarily for the purposes of education does not count towards the 3-year "ordinarily resident" rule.

However, in situations where the child was overseas as a result of parents working overseas on temporary contracts, the 3-year rule is often deemed to be overruled.

Bottom line is that to a large extent, it is up to the discretion of the university Registry.

See here for an example fees assessment form that gives some clues:
http://www.strath.ac.uk/media/depart...ment_Form.docm

Also, see:
http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/files/pdf/i...land_print.pdf (this is for Scotland, but similar rules apply to the rest of the UK as far as I know).

Last edited by dunroving; Jun 30th 2010 at 5:32 pm.
dunroving is offline  
Old Jun 30th 2010, 6:01 pm
  #4  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 60
karin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nice
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Thank you both for the replies.
But I am just a bit puzzled about the statement that you cannot have been resident for the last 3 years solely for education purposes. Do you mean that if a child was to go to boarding school but travel back and forth to his family overseas, he would fall into this category? Because otherwise wouldn't every young person aged 15 to 18 be resident in a country for educational purposes, as that is their fulltime role?

Sorry if I am missing something very obvious here,
Karin.
karin_and_boys is offline  
Old Jun 30th 2010, 7:05 pm
  #5  
Ping-ponger
 
dunroving's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,001
dunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Originally Posted by karin_and_boys
Thank you both for the replies.
But I am just a bit puzzled about the statement that you cannot have been resident for the last 3 years solely for education purposes. Do you mean that if a child was to go to boarding school but travel back and forth to his family overseas, he would fall into this category? Because otherwise wouldn't every young person aged 15 to 18 be resident in a country for educational purposes, as that is their fulltime role?

Sorry if I am missing something very obvious here,
Karin.
Yes, even if the child did NOT leave during the 3 years to go back and see parents overseas, he/she would still be deemed to be living in the UK primarily for the purposes of education.

The difference between that situation and "regular" (non-expat) British kids is that getting an education isn't their main reason for living in the UK. They live in the UK because that is their home, where their family (esp. parents) live, etc.

If you look at the second link I provided, look at the definition in Box 2. It says “Where a category includes a condition that the main purpose of your residence must not have been to receive full-time education, a useful question to ask is: “if you had not been in full-time education, where would you have been ordinarily resident?”. If the answer is “outside the relevant residence area”, this would indicate that the main purpose for your residence was full-time education. If the answer is that you would have been resident in the relevant residence area even if you had not been in full-time education, this would indicate that full-time education was not the main purpose for your residence in the relevant area.”

In the case of a "regular" UK child, if he/she wasn't in full-time education in the UK, he/she would nevertheless still live in the UK. In the example you gave, as you said, the child would have been sent to the UK in order to get a full-time education - and therefore would otherwise NOT live in the UK.

Like I said, it's a little complicated and arbitrary. If you see my recent thread, I'm trying to help an expat student with this situation at the moment. It's been a steep learning curve. http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=672934

Last edited by dunroving; Jun 30th 2010 at 7:10 pm.
dunroving is offline  
Old Jun 30th 2010, 7:47 pm
  #6  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 60
karin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nice
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Thank you, Dunroving. This clarifies the issue for me. The process is pretty well thought out really, from what I have read in your links. There are no loopholes as such.....
Yes, I have been following your thread re trying to assist the overseas student. I read all the uni related thread, for my own info and also now I know of my friend's plans re. boarding school for her son. I don't think this is good news for her as it looks like she will not fulfill the residency requirement.
I hope your own plans are coming together and you are getting closer to returning to the U.S.

Karin.
karin_and_boys is offline  
Old Jun 30th 2010, 7:59 pm
  #7  
Ping-ponger
 
dunroving's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,001
dunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Originally Posted by karin_and_boys
Thank you, Dunroving. This clarifies the issue for me. The process is pretty well thought out really, from what I have read in your links. There are no loopholes as such.....
Yes, I have been following your thread re trying to assist the overseas student. I read all the uni related thread, for my own info and also now I know of my friend's plans re. boarding school for her son. I don't think this is good news for her as it looks like she will not fulfill the residency requirement.
I hope your own plans are coming together and you are getting closer to returning to the U.S.

Karin.
Thanks, I'm working on it but trying not to get too obsessed. You have to live with what you've got otherwise you just feel like your life is permanently on hold. Had a near-miss in February (came second at interview - actually, I came first but they offered the job to the guy who came second).

We (i.e., the student) is submitting a case for Home Fees. If she's successful, I'll post on here how we did it but for now don't want to tempt fate. You have to feel for UK expat kids who didn't get a choice where they lived and then are treated worse university fee-wise than EU residents, despite being UK citizens.
dunroving is offline  
Old Jun 30th 2010, 9:28 pm
  #8  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 60
karin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nicekarin_and_boys is just really nice
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Originally Posted by dunroving
Thanks, I'm working on it but trying not to get too obsessed. You have to live with what you've got otherwise you just feel like your life is permanently on hold. Had a near-miss in February (came second at interview - actually, I came first but they offered the job to the guy who came second).

We (i.e., the student) is submitting a case for Home Fees. If she's successful, I'll post on here how we did it but for now don't want to tempt fate. You have to feel for UK expat kids who didn't get a choice where they lived and then are treated worse university fee-wise than EU residents, despite being UK citizens.
Was the candidate second in line a local? Was this perhaps what swayed the decision? How frustrating for you, so close but yet...

At times like this, I try to always keep in mind my Mum's favorite saying 'Whats for you won't pass you by' I think it might be an Irish saying actually. But I suppose it essentially means that life is mapped out for us. Maybe you are meant to be here longer for a particular reason and something better is in store?
karin_and_boys is offline  
Old Jul 13th 2010, 2:20 pm
  #9  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
Vincentina is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Originally Posted by dunroving
We (i.e., the student) is submitting a case for Home Fees. If she's successful, I'll post on here how we did it but for now don't want to tempt fate. You have to feel for UK expat kids who didn't get a choice where they lived and then are treated worse university fee-wise than EU residents, despite being UK citizens.

Most people who are not expats are unaware of this issue. I am currently having a small battle about whether I am ordinarily resident in the UK because we have a home abroad still.

The argument goes as follows if I sell the house then they will believe that I am ordinarily resident and in two years time I will be able to be a home student and able to take the teaching qualification I now need for free instead of paying 7,000 (I am a highly experienced and qualified teacher of adults but the goal posts moved while I was an expat)

HOWEVER as my husband and I want to retire there in 20 years time we don't want to sell as it is perfection and we will never get it again and we worked ourselves to a frazzle to get it.

Anyone had this cause a problem for them with their children? We came back for the childrens' education dammit!
Vincentina is offline  
Old Jul 15th 2010, 2:51 am
  #10  
JAJ
Retired
 
JAJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
JAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Originally Posted by Vincentina
Most people who are not expats are unaware of this issue. I am currently having a small battle about whether I am ordinarily resident in the UK because we have a home abroad still.

The argument goes as follows if I sell the house then they will believe that I am ordinarily resident and in two years time I will be able to be a home student and able to take the teaching qualification I now need for free instead of paying 7,000 (I am a highly experienced and qualified teacher of adults but the goal posts moved while I was an expat)

HOWEVER as my husband and I want to retire there in 20 years time we don't want to sell as it is perfection and we will never get it again and we worked ourselves to a frazzle to get it.

Anyone had this cause a problem for them with their children? We came back for the childrens' education dammit!
If you have otherwise settled in the UK then possession of a second home overseas should not stop you from being deemed "ordinarily resident." Start asking questions about avenues of complaint/appeal if rules are being illegally applied.
JAJ is offline  
Old Sep 25th 2010, 2:20 am
  #11  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Pedro Penn is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Uni and international fees

My son who is a British citizen but has never lived in the UK did a foundation course for a year at a UK uni and then started civil engineering. but after his first year he decided that he didn't like it. He then changed universities (but in the same city) and did another foundation year and is now in his final year of an International Business degree.
For three years he paid international rates but at the start of the fourth year and without requesting it the university started charging him EU rate.
Soon after arriving in the UK he got himself a NI number and got on the electoral register - I don't know if that helped.
Pedro Penn is offline  
Old Sep 25th 2010, 8:15 am
  #12  
Ping-ponger
 
dunroving's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,001
dunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Originally Posted by Pedro Penn
My son who is a British citizen but has never lived in the UK did a foundation course for a year at a UK uni and then started civil engineering. but after his first year he decided that he didn't like it. He then changed universities (but in the same city) and did another foundation year and is now in his final year of an International Business degree.
For three years he paid international rates but at the start of the fourth year and without requesting it the university started charging him EU rate.
Soon after arriving in the UK he got himself a NI number and got on the electoral register - I don't know if that helped.
I think this is an example of how the rules can sometimes be applied inconsistently. Unless he specifically submitted a fees assessment form requesting home fees status, with a strong rationale, someone at the last university made a mistake.

The "international" (expat) student I was helping was charged international fees for 6 years, at two different institutions. As you'll see in my other thread (see earlier link), we have just managed to get her home fees status for her postgraduate degree. But it was a long and painstaking fight.
dunroving is offline  
Old Sep 25th 2010, 2:14 pm
  #13  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Pedro Penn is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Uni and international fees

Could have been a mistake (but a welcome one!). After re-registering and being told what his fees were he went twice to the finance office to ask them to check his status as he was worried that later on they would say that a mistake had been made and he wouldn't have the money to pay. Twice he was told that he had been "re-assesed" as UK resident and the fee level was correct. Maybe different universities have different criteria.
Pedro Penn is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.