From Goan Voice UK of 8 July 2008:

Fri. 18 Jul: BBC Radio Four: 12:30 - 12:56. Face the Facts. John Waite presents the investigative consumer series. British property owners in Goa fear they may lose their homes in a backlash against foreign investment in the Indian state. Also online. Produced by Karen Pirie. Repeated Sun 20 Jul. 21:00.

This programme is a follow-up to the You and Yours programme broadcast of 23 May 2008. To listen to the You and Yours programme of 23 May click here.

It was a good program today, I think there were less inaccuracies than most media items.

In his interview the lawyer Vikram Varma explained that the Goan government was interpreting the FEMA provision requiring an 'intention to stay for an uncertain period' as excluding foreigners because they have a visa valid for a fixed period, and must therefore leave before a certain date.
Firstly I would like to point out that the Goan government seem to have little faith in their own argument, since they do not use it when preventing foreigners from registering their property deeds. Instead they have ordered the Registrars not to register these deeds for a number of spurious reasons: last year they were told to ask for a 'No Objection Certificate' from the Home Department (the Home Department do not issue them). This year they are asking for a letter of permission from the Reserve Bank of India, again the RBI do not issue such letters (and in fact they do issue letters stating exactly that!).
I am not surprised at the government's unwillingness to have their argument tested in the courts. It seems to me that they are confusing 'uncertain' (not certainly known - oed) with 'indefinate' (vague, undefined,... unlimited - oed), 'uncertain' does not have the meaning of unlimited which their argument would require (since someone can always leave at an uncertain time before their visa expires).

AndyD 8-)#

I think, that in Goa, words mean exactly what the government of the day WANT them to mean! And that is the problem!!

We have bought a plot of land in Goa BTW (my husband is a PIO so we don't have quite as many problems as others), and MY GOODNESS the hoops they make you jump through to get planning permission for a small villa!! 2 years now and still the whole planning process is not complete!

GetGoan (or not!)

I think the programme today was very good, although there was a point which I thought could have been used and unfortunately hadn't been picked up by the investigator, the X visa. When we went to London during our research prior to moving to Goa we were advised that they would issue us with a 1 yr X visa, this visa was to enable us to extend our 1yr visa within India, in order to stay there for an indefinate period and with this we could stay for over 183 days thus allowing us to purchase property as a resident of India, we confirmed this meeting in a letter to the attache we had met with. Infact we did try to extend our visa in India and went through the whole process at the FRO and the Home office in Panjim where it sat forever, however, in the meantime we had our Residents permit stamped "Extension applied for" and was allowed to stay, infact we travelled around India with this document and was never questioned about it. Finally we went back to the FRO to enquire about it and was told it would probably be quicker to go back to UK to get a new one, we were going on holiday anyway so decided to go this route and not wait for the extended visa. When passing through immigration in Mumbai we were asked what we had been doing in Goa and when we told them we lived there there were no questions asked, therefore, it is clear that the authorities of India knew exactly what was going on. We have friends who in the early days did get extensions, however, in future years never actually got one issued but kept getting their residence books stamped allowing them to stay.

We also have an elderly gentleman friend in the South who did go to the RBI for permission to buy and he was told that subsequent to the FEMA rules they no longer did this and he should go the FEMA route!

I think most people went the way Michealle is describing so many of us have done it this way, at the end of the day the goan government will do want the wish to stop us from being here happily ever after, X visa means jack,
What i posted on this forum has been spoken about today the uncertain bit, as told to me by Vickram Varma, but alot of people deemed that statement weeks ago as being nonsense. I do hope those people are now eating their words!!!!!!!!
You've just heard it so to speak from the horses mouth, the goan government officials.
At the end of the day they do not want us here anymore and i for one do not want to be here anymore.
The light at the end of the tunnel is that there are a few brits who have there names on their deed of sale now being allowed to sell and i thankfully am one of those lucky people so its good bye goa and hello to some country who wants me and my money!!!!
!!!!

Poppetjay, if you mean me then I'm sorry love but I was right and you were technically wrong - you insisted that the law banned you from buying if you were 'certain to leave', I insisted that the law did not use that expression anywhere and suggested you were confusing "certain to leave" and "stay for an uncertian period" - you were!
And the Goan government is confusing 'uncertain' and 'indefinite' - and the courts will sort it out - - eventually!
old argy bargy here

AndyD 8-)#

why was i wrong?? thats what was said in the programme!!!! "you are always certain to leave as you have a visa"just because you cant find it in the FEMA regulations dosent mean it dosent exsist its proably all legal jargon,
At the end of the day the people that have contributed their time and sent letters to whoever they think will help know who they are and will continue to fight, and the people that still continue to diss anything people say or do will continue to do so it must be in their nature

we have to continue our campaign of giving interviews and writing comments to newspapers and raising awareness. I know there are some of you who think this is not effective. You may be right but all I know is that we have to. No one else is interested. There are now falrly frequent articles most days in the Uk press about some aspect of Goa or India, whether it's the Visa problem, the murder situation, the health problems with malaria, the drop in tourism or whatever ( it does not necessarily have to be about owning property). All of these articles are an opportunity to comment in some way and add some other extra views while doing so. I do this most days now and find that my comments in the Uk press generate others to which I can again reply and so it goes on.At the very least if we get this as a talking point in the UK mentality this is good. it will be a bonus if by so doing we put off some people from coming here and spending their money here. If tourist spending drops this will be hurt them in their pockets, which is all that matters to them..It is worht the time and effort. What do we have to lose?

Totally agree with you. BUT it won't be the visa, property, cleanliness, conning the tourists, problems etc. When Goa actually feels the drop in tourism - they will just blame the credit crunch! Anything but the real reasons.
facts.

OK I give up, if I can't explain to you that there is a significant difference between 'stay for an uncertain period' and 'certain to leave' then I'll have no hope with the Goan government!
The reason I keep banging on about this is that it is important; if the law really did say that you can't buy if you're certain to leave then we should all have read that (or our lawyers should) and we would be clearly in the wrong for buying.

AndyD 8-)#

EXACTLY what you said in your last sentence is exactly how Vickram Varma explained it to me, we should have never been allowed to buy !!!!!who's the dummy now!!! yes you are certain to leave because you have a visa...
your uncertain to leave when you dont have to have a visa...... take it up with him his the one who has found the clause.

I am not aware of anyone with" their names on their deed of sale now being allowed to sell"; can you give any more information on this.

I am in Goa and, as far as I know, the Register is still closed for selling. My Sale Deed is registered, and I would have the property on the market pronto if I thought I could get a sale registered. No problem finding an Indian or NRI buyer.

They've slapped a 4,000 R/- "audit charge" - whatever that means - on top of my electricity bill, and the usual substantial "arrears" which are proveably fictitious if you check past bills and meter readings. This is how they treat foreigners, and I can barely get a grunt of explanation from the meter reader as he hands me the bill and the "audit demand". I've really had it with this lot; they can go **** themselves, cheating bustards.

This is the response they've given me for causing a bit of a stir amongst the Electricity Department. After parking their lazy erses (for over a year) on my file application to change name of account holder, I got them moving with the help of a drinking friend and senior official in the Department. After resurrecting my file from a long forgotten pile on the floor, and several trips between various sub offices, paying them a Demand Draft for change of name, affidavit, notarised copies of everything, gaining all the relevant "signing off" signatures, I was assured that my next bill would be in my name. Not so; it's a safe bet the file is back in the "foreigner; forget about it" pile (and my friend has retired from the Department; though not from drinking).

Goa : I really don't want to give you even one more paise of my money. You deserve to suffer the public relations disaster that you have created. It is time to proactively discourage foreigners from visiting Goa, even as two week tourists.

I am sorry Andy but our Advocates should not have let us purchase, you would be sent straight out of a lawyers office in the UK if that was the case.

Hi Babu
After reading this, we shall leave our file (complete with all the notarised copies, signing off letters etc.) on their floor where it must have been under yours for the last two years. I suppose legally if the bill is not in our name we don't have to pay it. It will be candles and take aways from now on.

can bet that one honeybee ours has been there for 5 years!!!! we gave up trying in the end, life's to short, but i dont see why there is Rs4,000 extra on the bill, if its not in your name they would'nt know your a foreigner so there must be a fiddle going on somewhere!! unless your paying for the whole of the village/complex or prehaps your paying for the street lights!!!!