lisajhb

oh what a nightmare. hope things sort themselves out for you soon.

bromleygirl

Depending on what assets you have and if you have children can you claim Income Support. If you are able to claim IS then you will be able to obtain housing benefit and council tax benefit.

BristolUK

So the majority of the last few years have been in the UK? Is 10 months long enough to have established a life in another country? Resettling back in the UK would seem quite straightforward.
Was permanent residency actually established in Oz? Or some sort of temporary stay only? The reason for returning?

I'd be considering all these things if I was in my old job. Another one I forgot to mention earlier - if there are kids, what's happening about school?

Any job applications actually made before returning to the UK?

As I said earlier, the rule wasn't intended to hit Brits returning so I'd look for a way to accept your intention to be resident. What could go against someone would be not having made (what the Benefits Person considers as reasonable) arrangements to resettle. I don't mean to judge, but from what you have said, I can imagine the less helpful, less understanding type of person entrusted with this kind of decision approaching it in a different way to me and thinking something like this - and I'm just playing Devil's advocate here - So you came here from Australia, you haven't arranged any accommodation, no job arranged....how were you planning to live?

They'd be so negative to begin with and not particularly receptive to other ideas. Especially if the benefit claim was made "too soon", if you see what I mean.

Get back, arrange somewhere to live, have some job interviews, re-activate a bank account, show that funds were transferred, start the ball rolling to get the kids back into school, re-register with the doctor, join the library, let the tax office know you're again resident...as much of you can think of that would suggest a normal life in the UK....then make the claim.

This HRT thing takes so many people by surprise that the sort of detail that could make a difference is forgotten about. By the staff as well as the victim.

To my mind, flying back to the UK from Australia with all that entails - time, money, advance arrangements, contact with family/friends, accommodation plans (even if nothing especially solid had been arranged yet), closing bank accounts, paying off debts before leaving etc etc - is all going to point to intention to be resident back in the UK.

BristolUK

The HRT applies to Income Support too.

rkh001

We are both British citizens - I have paid 25 yrs worth of NI and taxes, hubby has paid over 30 yrs worth. We were only out for 10.5 months!
We have no investments in oz, we had left our bank accounts open here and have all our family here. One of the questions on the HRT form was something like," did you keep in touch with family and friends whilst you were out of the country?" Duh!!! "where are all you family members?"

Anyone know of any high buildings around???

Englishmum

To rkh001:

Please do read this info and links very carefully.

You *definitely* are entitled to pass the Habitual Residency Test with flying colours and here's the reason why!

In February 2002, the Labour MP for Chatham and Aylesford, Jonathan R Shaw, asked a Parliamentary question to the Secretary of State to make a formal request for a "Written Answer". The reply came from the Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Work and Pensions, Malcolm Wicks.

What is a 'Written Answer'?

The Parliamentary Question is a great way for MPs and Peers to discover information that the government ***may not wish to reveal*** (source; www.theyworkforyou.com)


********************************

Shaw asked the Secretary of State these questions:

1). What action he has taken as a consequence of the European Court judgement of 25 Feb 1999 in the case of Swaddling, with special reference to British nationals returning to Britain from South Africa;

2) What plans he has to review the habitual residence test.

In his Written Answer, Wicks replied:

"In its judgement in the Swaddling case, the European Court of Justice made it clear that people returning from a European Member state to re-establish ties in the United Kingdom can be treated as habitually resident on their return.

Following this judgement we reviewed the habitual residence test and decided to extend this important principle to people returning from any country overseas to re-establish ties here. These measures have resulted in fairer access to income-related benefits, while ensuring security against possible abuse of the benefits system by those with no real links to the United Kingdom

We keep all our policies under review but have no current plans to change the habitual residence test".

Source:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/...-02-13.30950.h

To the O/P: Do please print off the info in the link as it is from a Govt. source (Hansard) with case numbers. I strongly suggest that you also print off the page from the Hansard link so that the official dealing with your Appeal can look it up under the Case nos. listed. Take it to the Employment Office and ask to speak with a Manager about your claim and have new information regarding your Appeal and request that it be treated with the utmost urgency. Whatever you do, stay calm and don't shout or get angry, but gently and firmly press your case.

Also inform the manager that you will be contacting your MP in the first instance if there is not a speedy satisfactory outcome - you may even wish to produce and show the manager a letter regarding your case in an envelope ready to post to your MP the moment you leave the office....

Now when I worked at the Employment Office we would from time to time get letters on headed notepaper from the House of Commons when someone had been in touch with their MP and I can tell you that those letters were given *No.1 priority* by the managers as they would be scared shltless if they have to deal with enquiries from MPs!

You can find the name of your local MP from the same website:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

The official means of writing to or contacting your MP is found via this link:

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/m...ps_contact.cfm (Letters should be addressed to "............" (name of MP), House of Commons, London SW1A OAA if you want to write in rather than send an e-mail or make a phone call). However, you might like to call his or her office to find out if you can have a face-to-face meeting at one of the regular constituency meetings in your local community. (Do let the Employment Office know that you're planning to do this... )


Also here is some other info regarding the HRT in a question from Welfare Rights workers regarding a lady returning from Australia after 61/2 years (it seems that she probably qualified but not enough info was included in this link):

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forum/pfas/88.html


I hope that this info is of some use to you and wish you success in a speedy beneficial outcome to your claim.

rkh001

Thank you Englishmum.
I have already posted my standard appeal form. The local JSA office had asked us to do that as she too couldn't understand why we had been declined. We were also told to phone the decision maker in Canterbury and when we did, we were told that the person we were speaking to would send an email to the decision maker who would then phone us. We left 2 messages on 2 different days, and that was last week, and we are still waiting.

BristolUK

Absolutely true. And wasn't it irritating as a member of staff with a backlog of work to have to 'drop everything' to investigate...especially when the complaint turns out to be about something where there is no discretion; such as a well defined law brought in by the gov and that very MP voted for the legislation on which the complaint is founded.

I remember seeing a letter from an MP who actually used the phrase "I appreciate that this is laid down, but could we come to some arrangement?" What was ironic was he was a member of the government of the day, critical of poll tax refuseniks saying they should obey the law.

charlieh

Thank you BristoUK for the response concerning nhs treatments. I have found further information regarding this on the Department of Health website, it may be of use to someone else:

Under the current Regulations, anyone who is taking up or resuming permanent residence in the UK is entitled to free National Health Service (NHS) hospital treatment in England. If your intention is to live permanently in the UK you will be exempt from hospital charges from the date of your arrival in the country but you should expect to be asked to prove your intention and that you are legally entitled to live here. This exemption applies to your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) if they are living here with you on a permanent basis.

If you do not have an automatic right to take up permanent residence but have applied to the Home Office for leave to enter/remain on a settled basis, you will be chargeable for any hospital treatment up to the point your application is granted or until you accrue 12 months lawful residence in the UK.

bromleygirl

British citizens do not need to sit the HRT. What they need to do is quote the Swaddling decision. Of course it helps to show that you are becoming resident again i.e. registering with a GP etc. but essentially UKC's should not need to take the HRT.

BristolUK

At the risk of being a pedant, everybody entering the uk whether as first timers or returnees and then claiming JSA/IS etc has to 'take' the HRT - which initially just means answering some questions - Some may be treated as satisfying it without having to consider all the variables, some may pass it and some may fail.

The fact that British citizens 'returning' continue to 'fail' the test suggests many possibilities, one of which is that they are not actually intending to become resident again. Their true intention may not be as obvious as some may think and if they didn't have to 'take' the test that might not become known.

Just as an example, I had a claim from someone who had recently (then) come 'home' from South Africa and had already completed the HRT questionnaire, when the paperwork was passed to me. All answers strongly suggested a genuine intention to remain in the UK and I was about to complete the formalities. There was just one tiny problem.

When I phoned to clarify a minor point, I couldn't speak to the person 'resettling in the UK' because they had already returned to South Africa after their visit.

Many things are not always what they seem.

Claiming I/S is unlikely to succeed having been failed - rightly or wrongly - under HRT for a JSA claim. Apart from I/S being for people who don't have to be available for work (so their circumstances will need to have changed to apply for I/S rather than JSA) if truthful answers are given on the application, the need to consider HRT will be identified in the same way it was on the JSA claim and the existence of that claim will also be known. So the apparent failure of HRT will also be known.

Depending on the local organisation used by the office (it's not necessarily the same set-up everywhere) the HRT aspect might even be looked by the same person who decided it the first time.

ezzie

This is all very interesting - and making me realise nothing is quite as simple as you hope it will be! We're going back in Nov, essentially for a 8-10 wk trial to determine going back for good. I'll have return flights booked back to Sydney for January. Now, I have no intentions of applying for any benefits etc in that time, but I've been told that to get a place at schools (and part of the plan is that the kids attend a local school for a while), I should be receiving child benefits which presumably means filling in HRT forms. So, should I attempt to do this and can you do it whilst outside of the country in preparation for going back?

Health wise...I thought Australia had a reciprocal agreement with the UK to provide hospital treatment...am I wrong on this one?

BristolUK

Exactly. And when you do get seemingly identical circumstances but a different result, there may be some small difference that was relevant (or disputed) that only the officials would know. Or one official gave greater importance to a particular factor than another. Or just simply an error.

I can't say for sure about that Child Benefit/school aspect. There was a time, not too long ago, when a residency period was needed (perhaps the child being in the uk for 6 months?) before CHB became payable. That rule didn't present any obstacle to a child attending school in the meantime.

But I looked here and I couldn't see any reference to a residency period.

Perhaps someone else can answer this point and the hospital question.

scampicat

In our case we still have our UK house, lived in by our son, are on the electoral roll as non-resident voters, have various UK bank accounts, regularly visit a UK private dentist and in my husband's case he still pays taxes to the UK as his Teachers' Pension has to be taxed in the UK and he also receives Incapacity Benefit from the UK.

We intend to become resident in the UK again around 2010, spending about 7/5 months between UK/Spain.

We will not be eligible for means-tested benefits but I assume we would not have to pass the HRT in order to be qualify for NHS healthcare and things like heating allowance and over -60s bus passes etc?

Bevm

Over-60 bus pass? What else can one get at over 60?

Not that I'm grasping, or anything , but it's nice to know,

Bev