An.

Dear All,
I would firstly like to express great thanks for the extensive and uber helpful information I have come across on this forum. Although I have been able to locate information, there remains the difficulty of applying it to my specific circumstances. Therefore apologies ensue if I am repeating what may have already been asked.

By way of background, my fiance and I met three years ago on an internet dating site. Over these years we have maintained our relationship through regular visits: once every 2-3 months for a week or two, though more recently, I have taken monthly visits . I am a UK citizen and he is a USC.
We have courted the idea of marriage and, naturally, wanting to be in the same country for about a year now.

Originally, we planned along the lines of the K1 visa route but after looking into it and visiting an immigration attorney in the summer, it appears that the better route in our situation would be to marry then he would petition to bring his spouse to the US.

Firstly, I am asking what is the better option for us in light of our priorities:
a)To have me enter the US without having to wait months for the right to work or travel back to the UK to work. As I presently understand, the K1 route would mean I may be without work for 2-3 months plus 'in limbo' while the rest of the papers are filed after the civil marriage. On the other hand, his petition to bring me to the US as his spouse would mean I could remain in the UK working while all the paper work goes through there and enter permanently once it's complete.. I am confused on this point though. I have read previously on this site that when I enter the US I will have permanent resident status and have the right to work instantly, but do I not need to enter before this for the interview then return home and await the outcome?
b)Our situation is not dictated by being married and wanting to be together as soon as possible. We are happy to be apart for a bit longer if it means a smother process and that I do not remain 'dormant' upon entry into the US.

Secondly, I have concerns in light of where the civil marriage should take place if we do not proceed down the K1 visa route, but rather the petition for a spouse:
a)We could get married in the US while I am on VWP, then I return back to the UK to work and he files the papers. However, I am not keen on this route for the following reasons:
i)I do not want to 'lie', so to speak, at POE when entering for the marriage even though I would be returning home. I have a good job here and have no intention of staying to adjust status -as stated we are not in a rush to 'just be together' but rather the smoothness of employment rights are of greater concern.
ii) Will the issue at i) be brought up/ questioned in a later interview for permanent resident status even though I have no overstays on VWP and did not intent to stay but returned home.
ii) Will it affect a fitness and character interview for an attorney licence in NY that I entered on a VWP and got married, even though I have no overstays on VWP and did not intent to stay but returned home and waited for the process to go through.
Because of these concerns we have looked at the other option.
b) We could get married in the UK. I understand that he would need to get a visa for the purpose of marriage. My concerns are:
i) The two stages requires, giving notice of marriage and then the registry/ marriage can take place only 17 days after the former event. It is not possible for my fiance to stay in the UK for this length of time given his employment constraints in the US. Thus,he will need to leave then enter again.
ii) can he enter on the same visa for the purpose of marriage twice? One entry for giving notice (I'm sure he will be asked, as a foreign national, to produce such a visa at this stage-correct me if wrong?) and the other for the marriage. Or will he have to obtain two separate 'for the purpose of marriage only' visas for each stage? On the second entry will he be denied for trying to use the same visa twice or for obtaining the same visa for a second time?
iii) I am aware that this visa, once obtained, will be valid for 6 months. It's quite synonymous with the above question really, but can he exit the UK and enter on it, and it still remain valid?

Lastly, when I go over, I will buy an apartment in a different state to which he resides. This is solely for the purposes of my career (I have no bar licence in his state). Will this draw adverse inferences from immigration?

Thank you all very kindly for your patience! and I appreciate any feedback and/ or ideas.

An.

ian-mstm

Correct... but you may be without work even if you enter as a permanent resident, however with the latter, you *can* work if a job was forthcoming.


Correct. You become a PR the day you enter the US. Your green card and SS card will arrive within a few weeks of your entry.


No... your interview will be in the UK prior to your entering the US.


A refreshing change from what we usually encounter in this forum.


It will likely not be an issue.


Getting married in the US while on the VWP is perfectly legal and okay.


Most likely, yes.


I don't believe so, no... however, must he be present for the notice? If not, that eliminates the extra trip. If he must be there, then he should enter as a visitor the first time, and as a fiance the second.


The validity is more a matter of having 6 months in which to use the visa... not necessarily that the duration of the visa is 6 months.


Many couples reside in different places for professional reasons.

Ian

An.

Much appreciated Ian.

In respect of the following:

'I don't believe so, no... however, must he be present for the notice? If not, that eliminates the extra trip. If he must be there, then he should enter as a visitor the first time, and as a fiance the second.'

To give notice he must be present. However, I am not sure if they will allow him to give notice on a visitor's status. I have done extensive research and there is no direct material on the point (or at least that I can find). Though, it is implied that for any stage of the process he would require a visa as a foreign national after the Feb 2005 legislation.

'Correct... but you may be without work even if you enter as a permanent resident, however with the latter, you *can* work if a job was forthcoming.'

May I please ask you to elaborate further on this point.. if
as you say
'You become a PR the day you enter the US. Your green card and SS card will arrive within a few weeks of your entry'
then what other issues regarding employment rights could I face?

'Getting married in the US while on the VWP is perfectly legal and okay.'

In regards to this, very useful. I think this will eventually preside over the UK option. Are you aware of any hurdles in particular states/ or states which are more forthcoming to a USC marrying a non USC.. in terms of procedure? It would either be in NY, NC or PA but for ease of procedure we would consider another state (I have yet to research requirements for civil marriage in these states so jumping the gun a little).

Kind Regards,
An.

An.

Thank you Rete. Indeed, I am very aware and that part is taken care of. My concern rather ventured on the suggestion that there may have been other general employment issues, which I thought were implied from Ian's '*can* work' -so to suggest a green card and SS were not the be all and end all of obtaining the legal right to work. Was just a little confusing and I sought clarification -seems to be fairly clear now! Thanks once again.

fatbrit

Your legal right to work as an employee is based around the I-9 form, a relic of the 1987 Reagan amnesty. On an immigrant visa, your solitary passport with the I-551 stamp in it (given at the port of your first entry) is sufficient to meet the documentary requirements. So in theory you could leave the airport in the morning and start swing shift the same afternoon if you were so prepared.

However, there are a couple of issues around this. Firstly, understand that human resources departments tend to attract the dumbest people known to mankind (well after the local DMV office have had first dibs at their quota). You will find that many of them can't comprehend what they read on the form and will happily demand other things from you with the full authority of their bs.

Also, they will be pissed that you cannot produce a social security number for the first couple of weeks. It is not a requirement of the I-9 to have a social security number.

In addition, because the federal government has shown its reluctance to enforce current legislation, state governments have been busy showing their willingness to pander to the bigoted crowd in their electorate by passing all manner of legislation seemingly to stop employers hiring "illegals". Much of it will no doubt trawl its way through the federal court system and be found at odds with their trump-card law. But you could well be caught in the middle.

Funnily enough, the feds provide a pack of rabid pit bulls to defend you from your stupid HR department. They're called the EEOC and are ready and willing to slap anybody who discriminates against bloody foreigners. Dropping their name casually while discussing your insufficiencies with the french-manicured dozo in the HR department is usually enough to bring them to their senses. (Although as a new lawyer in the US, you might like to take it a little further to get some practice in?)

Welcome to the wacky, wacky world of US employment law BTW!

meauxna

Goodness.. wish we got paid by the word here..

The K-1 simply does not seem to suit your needs. It's designed to get fiances TO the US quickly for the purpose of getting married and being reunited. NOt to work, not to get established in life etc etc. Remember that citizens of many countries can not even visit the US.

Your other confusion comes from the fact that there are two ways to get Permanent Resident status:
-by arriving with a visa from the Dept of State (applied for OUTside the US)
-by 'Adjustment of Status' courtesy of the USCIS, when you are already INside the US on a non-immigrant entry.

Everything you wrote above says "Immigrant Visa" to me.

Why do you presume you would have to lie? Faulty assumption that also assumes it is illegal to marry in the US as a tourist.

Many couples find they need to have a 'commuter marriage' for a period of time. This is not a bar to successful immigration, but should be dealt with above board.


You might find this document useful in explaining what Permanent Resident can and can't do:
Now That You Are A Permanent Resident

The moment you are admitted with an Immigrant Visa, you become a Permanent Resident.
Don't confuse which *documents* you hold with your actual *status*.

meauxna

Not that I disagree with your assessment of HR, but it's not quite as bad as you make out, fb. Many people have had success getting hired with the MRIV and no SS#.
Considering OP's field, I'm sure she'd be able to navigate that easily enough.

By way of FYI, there is no more 'I-551' stamp like we had back in the day. These days it's an 'endorsed MRIV' (for Machine Readable Immigrant Visa), a full passport page sticky visa that is endorsed at the POE, but not with the I-551 stamp.
Knew you'd want to keep up on that.

meauxna

A valid SS# is not required to accept employment. Simply the status and having made the application is sufficient.
The application for an SS# can be made on the IV application DS-230 II.

fatbrit

Second time I've fallen into that trap. Should remember now!

ian-mstm

Ah... it seems so easy a question on the surface, but there are two separate issue that need to be dealt with. One is the issue of "eligibility", the other is the issue of "proof". As FatBrit points out, most HR departments know only what they've been taught and are sadly lacking in smarts when it comes to hiring non-USCs. They know "green card", but the rest of their head is largely empty! The I-9 is the key. As long as you can provide documents to fulfill those requirements, you're good to go. The employer can *not* dictate what those documents are... and, while a GC certainly fits the bill, it is by no means the only proof.


Marriage rules are set by the individual state. You would need to know "where" before you know "if". Some states require a SS#, others don't. Most will require picture ID such as a passport.


With respect to marriage, Nevada's laws are very relaxed but a bit of research should give you the information you're after.

Ian

meauxna

While this may be a generally state 'requirement' I believe all states have a way for non USCs to marry there. Contacting the licensing office instead of relying on what their webpage or 'first responder answer' says is a good idea.

An.

Ah, wonderful and informative!
Very grateful for this, definitely has provided me with a better vision of the process -especially the employment scenario!
Thank you all very kindly... though am sure I'll be back during the process to provide an update and to further seek advice!

An.

Josefsing

I am so glad I found this site. I need help with my situation. You guys are great