mitzipurr

Be very careful of so-called Estate Agents and lawyers practising in Chiclana near Cadiz.

There is a serious problem with land and legality of houses.

I have just bought a house here and on my Escitura (deeds) it states that I have one third of 4,495 metres of land when in fact I only have 750 metres. The rest has been stolen by a neighbour.

Neither the Estate Agent or Lawyer who sold the house checked these facts.

I am paying IBI (Rates) on land I dont have - so now I need to go to more expense to try and get my land back!!

The Estate Agent, Lawyer and seller all signed the deeds saying I had this land when I DID NOT.

Anyone wishing to contact me may do so at [email protected] where I will be pleased to supply the details of the so-called professionals

jdr

First ask the neighbor to move his fence etc off your land, and replace the boundery markers, ie little white concrete poles or black and yellow metal flags.

mitzipurr

Thanks for that but I am afraid it is more serious than that. The seller of my house has done a private contract with my neighbour and sold him my land on which he has built a huge storeroom. However she did not have the escituro altered so has commited fraud against me. Gratefull for any advice.

sibsie

Surely what was signed at the Notary is what stands legally? Obviously go back to your lawyer and if you can get a good second opinion from another lawyer.

Good luck.

Nige

This is shocking, but I imagine that it can happen anywhere. Seems like a big confusion over the plot dimensions and certainly a possible 'con'. If you purchased 1/3 rd of an overall plot of 4,495 sq.metres which is 1,498 sq.metres and only have 750 sq.metres then something is very very wrong ! What does the escritura actually say and do you have an English translation (assuming your Spanish is not good!) which is clear describing the plot in more detail. And what were the circumstances of the 'illegal' building erection and the timing of it. Do you have a good overall plan of the plot you purchased with recognisable boundaries showing the original 4,495 and your portion of it? Do you have the true dimensions of the plot on a site plan showing the positioning of your property with all the measurements?
It sounds to me that you will need the help of another lawyer who can study your escrituta and look at the plans as well as any photos you have showing the present situation, and then advise you on what your redress should be.
If you need an English speakng lawyer in the your area, the British Consulate in Malaga ( [email protected]) can send you a list for Cadiz province. On this list they have one lawyer in Conil but none in Chiclana. Also 2 or 3 in Cadiz town, and several in Jerez. But maybe you can find another lawyer in Chiclana. Please keep this thread informed about the developments.

mitzipurr

Many thanks for that will answer your questions in order

The Escitura says I own 33.33% of 4,471 square metres. I have been to the Town Hall and have plans and they also have me registered for the IBI as owning 33.33%.

Re Lawyers I went back to the original one which was used for the purchase and he came to the house to look then admitted he had made a mistake as he had not looked at the land. I am using another Lawyer now as he is hopeless but she is also based in Chiclana and now I think I may be better off going to one in Cadiz or another area where the rules are not so "slack". I will visit the British Consul as you advise.

mitzipurr

That is what I thought also - and I am determined to fight as I have paid a seller who I think has committed a fraud by selling me something I do not have. Is it possible to sue someone in Spain - do you know or does anyone else know this???

Thanks for best wishes

Nige

The name of an English speaking lawyer in CADIZ who is also the Consulate's legal Adviser is:
Sr. D. Juan Manuel perez Dorao, and his address is Avenida Ramon de Carranza 26-27, 5th floor. Telephone number is 956 212047 and email is: [email protected]
Think it is worth trying to contact this gentlemen to find out if he can assist you? Maybe set up an appointment by phone? He practices civil law as well as criminal law and administrative law, as well as other. That address is near the Comes bus station and port. if you dont have a map, look at this http://callejero.paginasamarillas.es then go to the adress by changing the drop down lists and typing in the address?

mitzipurr

Thank you very much for your trouble, I will follow that up and keep you posted

mitzipurr

Guess what after spending over 2 hours with a Lawyer in Chiclana I learned that my escitura does not mean anything it is what is verbally said about the house and land that matters???????????? I find it absolutely unbelieveable....

Sorry Nige the email address for Cadiz lawyer my letter was returned and at present getting to Cadiz is not an option as the dockworkers have turned very nasty and blocked up the road to access will try again next week fingers crossed!!

Nige

My experience of receiving replies to emails in Spain is fairly poor. Perhaps it's best to phone and find out a little more. If Sr. Perez Dorao's office cannot assist with your paricular problem, then he should be able to suggest another 'abogado'. By the way, I just looked up the list of lawyers in Cadiz on http://www.cadiznet.com/ (under Servicios Profesionales) and Sr Perez Dorao's address is shown as Plaza Topete 8 (which is next to the central post office building near the market). Telephone number is the same.

Sorry to hear about the continuing troubles between the dockworkers and the politicians. I read in the Diario de Cadiz Digital edition that the dockworkers feel vey let down by the government. Sounds very familiar. Have you ever gone into Cadiz using the train from your most convenient station? Just wonder if this is one way of beating the traffic delays caused by angry dockworkers.

elgestor

I stumbled across this website looking for updates for Gestores like myself. I work the Costa de la Luz and have heard a couple of horror stories recently that make me angry. I started reading your thread and I find it unbelievable what your lawyer is telling you.

The escritura outlines the properyty details, location, owner, registration number, status and much more. It is a legal document which is signed and witnessed by the Notario. The information from the escritura must be forwarded within a set time from the Notario to the Property Register for the sale to be valid. This document is specific, not as your lawyer is suggesting merely implied.

Under normal circumstances if your escritura says you are the legal owner then you are the legal owner of the property described in the escritura.

The Nota Simple which was produced at the signing of the escritura did it clearly state which property you were purchasing and was the Nota Simple an up to date version of the first one you saw when you agreed your private contract. Did your lawyer check to see that it matched your Private sale Contract with the vendor.

Also the way you describe the sale of your property as owning 33.33% strikes me of Sale by Divisas. This is where one large plot is subdivided from one escritura and then parts (divisas) are sold off. Each buyer receives an escritura for their share (divisa) of the whole. This is perfectly legal. But where you informed?

Did you receive from your lawyer or estate agent a copy of the Referencia Catastral clearly outlining the property boundaries both in words and graphically. If not I suggest you request a copy from the Catastro and compare it to what the escritura referred to before the sale and what it refers to now. If you bought what was on the Escritura then that property is rightfully yours.

It's unfortunate that you went the right way about buying a property in Spain by getting legal advice, but that the advice you received was incompetent.

mitzipurr

Hi

I was so happy to receive your email as I am at my wits end and on the verge of selling my house due to the stress.

I have contacted another Lawyer (not the one who originally supposedly was looking out for my interests...)

She informed me that because the estate agent, vendor and the agents colleague had told me that the house only had 1000 sqm plot and I had seen the house and land then this was more important than any legal document. The estate agent also acted as the official translator and signed the nota simpla as such. Even if the measurement of 1000sqm was the case the lawyer who has reached the above conclusion measured the land last week and I only have 725sqm so this is incorrect also

It also seems from the Lawyer that the Escitura, Nota Simpla and Land Registry all had mistakes on them ie they all state that I own 33.33% of 4,495 which works out to be just under 1500sqm but because the Escitura did not state the words 1,500 then it does not count. She quoted the civil code atricle 1469 as proof of this.

The original Lawyer who did the conveyancing visited my house soon after the deal was done and admitted he had made a mistake and should have checked the measurements of the land.

Incredibly the new lawyer stated that what you are told and what you see is more important than the Escitura, land registry and nota simpla. I had bought the house and land as seen and it was too late to do anything about it now. I am just a normal person and I do not understand sqm I trusted my Lawyer to see that everything was in order.

I cannot take the vendor to the civil court for fraud because the estate agent, her friend (another agent) the vendor and lawyer are all sticking together. Neither can I take her to criminal court because I have no witnesses

I made a visit to the Ayunatamiento and they also have my land registered as owning 33.33% and have calculated the IBI on this accordingly. So I am paying IBI on land I do not have.

Nobody is willing to help me now and it seems that the Escitura, Land Registry and any other legal written document are worthless.

It may be worth noting that the Estate Agent (who was the official translator at the Notary) and the Vendor had no qualms in signing "the Escitura with mistakes on it) and of course no one even had the decency to mention that I had bought something and was sold something which I did not have.

A word of warning for anybody buying a property in Chiclana. If your estate agent shows you the house and meets a colleague buyer beware!!

mitzipurr

PS to my earlier reply.

We NEVER saw a pre-contract or signed one so we do not know if the Lawyer even checked it against the Nota Simpla....

mitzipurr

PPS The Estate Agent (who was the official translator) should have read signed the Escitura NOT the Nota Simpla...