So we live the way Britons always used to? Even compared to the nineties, the rules have changed.

Part of your responsibilities as a citizen is to ensure that your laws suit society. It's not just meek obedience.

As much as I like the UK, there are dozens of things that I would change. I act upon that through the power that I have, my voice, my finances, my 'local' MP, my vote. And no, I don't live there, for a number of reasons.

I do think the UK is less racist on the surface than most other European countries..but don't forget all the race riots through the years either..or the uproar on eastern european immigration, etc, etc.

I hate to see religion influence law making at any level. Sadly however, religious sensitivty always seems to win. How glad was I when the BA airhostess was banned to wear her cross!! Finally some common sense. A uniform is a uniform for a reason, no room to try to be 'individual'. But I digress somewhat. I hope I'm not associated with Stalin or Mao now, but religion really is poison. I'm awaiting enlightenment.

some extra curricular reading: http://spectator.org/archives/2011/0...ning-backward#

Where did those damned druids go? We coulddo with a new henge, a concrete one perhaps.

Hmmmm.............

I oppose 'mass' immigration, but I'm not a racist. I think the UK should leave the EU, but I'm not a racist.

I hope everyone agrees that these positions are perfectly acceptable and non-contradictory.

I totally agree with you Dean - mass immigration is bad for any economoy let alone a small island - there should be quotas based on skill set and need of the country. The UK has been duped and is paying more than its share propping up the EU - without the benefits (not sure what they benefits are !!)

These are not racist views but common sense and self protection.

In Europe, the rights of homosexuals to cohabit, inherit each other's property and have children is now recognised by law. This reflects a change in society.

There are laws that aim to prevent discrimination against women in the workplace. This reflects a change in society.

An arrangement that presents an alternative to usurious student loans, although it is a religious change, is merely another case of a law that reflects a changing society.

I cannot possibly comment on the ethics of all Muslims in the world. I can comment on what their "holy books" teach and I can state I don't find them particularly ethical. I don't find a lot of Christianity and Judaism very ethical either.

If religious polemics is racism someone has changed the dictionary and not told me.

N.

Thanks for coming back to this point.
So- people who follow one of the three Abrahamic religions - which are unethical- are they ethical?

I normally keep my nose out of these type of debates, however, for fear of stating the obvious, this was made physically impossible by the highest of all powers....mother nature herself. And no spiritual being will ever be able to change that fact.

change in society or not..its impossible to achieve naturally.

PS -- i do not consider myself homophobic, racist or anti-anything. I will admit, even recent events considered, to being a gooner..

ciao..

Given most expatriates in the GCC are told this from day one and are deliberately paid more or less according to their passport/ethnic origin I wonder why if people in the UK ask newcomers to adapt to the local culture rather than the local culture adapting to them do you rant, point fingers and yell racist?

I've called repeatedly for better integration polices in the UK as it would reduce racism, as would reducing net immigration, it's an island not a vast continent. People living in separation, little enclaves based on ethnicity, culture and religion within the state isn't helping the UK one bit. I'm not sure how that's racist or a call for mass deportations but then I'm still struggling to work out how criticism of a religion or ideology is racist.

N.

You're entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong...which it clearly is.

Criticism of a religion or ideology is not racist for the simple reasons that religions are not races. Muslims come in almost every race you can imagine, mine, yours and everyone on this bored included. If I criticise Christianity no one will think to call me racist...so why not with Islam?

You're just using the term racism to silence criticism of Islam because you believe Islam can only be critiqued by Islamic scholars. Islam itself proscribes punishments for criticism - I find only fragile systems need punish people for airing their views - scholarly or not.

Essentially one has to study Islam on the terms set by Muslims in order to comment on it without being a "racist" in your eyes. Such a pity (but not unsurprising) that someone who seems quite intelligent and reasonable would think in such protectionist terms. Still that's the hallmark of Abrahamic religion: Censure, persecution, stifling opinion and when couple with political power; imprisonment and execution. Some ideas are apparently too precious and holy to speak about without someone being hurt, harassed or murdered.

N.

Good post, and much I agree with. One small point though; the Plymouth Brethren you comment on are more likely to be Exclusive Brethren, who are much like Shakers in the U.S. -not really in tune with the modern world. On the other hand Open Brethren ( which I was brought up as ) are more like the modern Quakers.
I do agree that perhaps the Islamic banks in the U.K. could offer student loans to those who wanted them, as it seems to be a niche that has been overlooked.
Enjoy your Eid holiday!

The Saxons had Common Law before they'd heard of a Judean called Jesus. They had trial by jury of their peers long before they had the Ten Commandments.

Britain's Empire is gone. Time to get over that...we're not responsible for 1/3 of the world nor can we take in 1/3 of the world or peacefully adopt the culture of 1/3 of the world. Britain, like other countries should be setting it's own rules about immigration and integration without fear of being racist or being reminded of something our ancestors did. Empires come and go, and Britain was just better at it than most people. So what?

The loan situation is clear - small minority interest groups cannot receive perks the rest do not (like abstainination of interest because of the ideology they choose to subscribe to). Religion and state should be clearly divided (which they are not in the UK - taxpayers furnish the Church of England and many religious charities and groups).

N.

Oh so we are going to adapt our standards to be just a bit better than those in the GCC?

A race to the bottom huh?

As long as there's someone who's worse than me, I am OK. That's a childish argument.

Interesting how your definition of newcomers conveniently happens to coincide 100% with the non-white, non-christian segment of the population.

thanks - i am entitled to my opinion, which you state in wrong

"Opinionn is that exercise of the human will which helps us to make a decision
without information." (John Erskine). As my life tends to be based on facts i try not to let emotions get the better of me - i register them and then look for facts to verify my understand/clarifications.

You state you have no understanding on Islam. Therefore your opinions are based upon no information. You grabs blrubs of data from well known sources (viennagates.com, and Daily Mail) and try to combine data as information. There is a vast difference between data and information.

If you have no understanding of Islam - is there something deeper in your intolerence/hatred of a religion. Confession is good for the soul.


You're just using the term racism to silence criticism of Islam because you believe Islam can only be critiqued by Islamic scholars. Islam itself proscribes punishments for criticism - I find only fragile systems need punish people for airing their views - scholarly or not.

I am not trying to silence you - please direct me to the post. Do you believe that a qualified doctor can give you the diagnosis that will treat the disease, or do you try to self-diagnosise then heal yourself -
or do you keep going to different doctors, ending up with a quack who will listen to you and agree to you diagnosis ?

Islam is more than qualified to upon scrutiny and censorship. It is said several times starting from Al-Qur’aan surah 2:23-24. From my information not even the bible or the torah make that claim. It has survived more things in the 1400 years however I have no confidence that a racist on a board can undermine anything that other people, better qualified than you tried.

I see that you have not commented (or the moderators are still asleep) in regard to my item regarding your ideas and the t&c of the board. Therefore can we assume that your ideas are held as the common belief ? If thats the case then the t&c should be removed.

Eid Murbarek to you and your family