We had a nice summer this year in the UK and I often see blue sky. The crisp sharp frosty mornings in the UK are beautiful. Everyone knows that it rains here it's just a fact of life, it's never going to be a hot country it's in the wrong place..common knowledge really

I can argue that we are financially better off here than in OZ. I lived there 16 months and it got no easier. We also had a large amount of money from the sale of our UK home that we put towards our Aussie home but when you're earning crap wages that don't support everyday living then it is a struggle, mortgage or no mortgage. Bills still have to be paid and food bought etc etc.
House prices here in the UK are ridiculous but after coming back from Perth in 2004 we found a lovely house, similar to the one we had before we left but with a much bigger garden, overall the property is far bigger. Compared to our house in OZ we have much more privacy.

Moving closer to a job is not always an option. My husband worked an hours drive away when we were in Perth, the area he worked in was horrid, I wouldn't have moved there and the suburbs within a reasonable distance were to expensive. Would have been better to change jobs but although he didn't struggle getting work he struggled to get paid more than $17 an hour!

Swings and roundabouts!!

You can't always have it your own way, some things have to give.

We moved from up North (UK) to down South (UK) by an hour and the rent increased by 3 times, but our home is lovely, great garden, nice village, loads of countryside, shame about the weather, but salary also had a good increase!!

If the weather was great here all year around, what would we have to look forward to?? If the houses were cheaper, what would we have to moan about?

It's hard to put a gloss on British weather, as it is so unpredictable. This is because of its status as an island more than its geographical position. It has more weather fronts than most countries and therefore it is almost impossible to rely on a weather forecast. In three weeks' time it might be hot on your birthday, it might be sleeting.

I try and retain objectivity in this debate, and I feel very strongly about Britain's benefits, of which there are many. But one of them is not property. I am not moved by anecdotal tales of houses being bigger or smaller or more or less private here or there. The objective fact is that decent and crap properties exist in both nations. If you live in Australia and you want a nicer house with more privacy and a better job with higher wages you can either buy a new house and get a better job, or move 12,000 miles back to Britain. The only difference being the British one will be much more expensive if it located in the south, where the majority of British people live and where the majority of the work is.

There are many more jobs here in the UK, and often better paid as well, but this is not so great as it might seem when you factor other things into the agenda. One thing I am struck with again and again is that the reasons many people offer on here as to why they are moving back to Britain from Australia are in fact exactly the same reasons they left the UK in the first place. It strikes me that this sort of person is doomed to spend life judging grass for its green-ness.

One thing you don't read a lot of on this thread is how much people can regret moving back to the UK. I know this feeling exists and it can go all the way in life along with you - a constant nagging that life in a warmer larger country with a lower population and lower crime and lower pollution is better in the long run. Australia is more forgiving to old people for one thing.

I think most people, on this website anyway, tend to move back to the Uk due to homesickness. I know this was my reason. There are people that move to OZ, hate it and move back to the Uk only to find that they don't like being back in the UK and return again to OZ. I know a few people who have done this.
What I find hard to understand though is how can someone hate a country so much the first time around and then on their return they see it in a totally different light? Is it really that different for them the second time around or is it just that they convince themselves that it is?
I don't think about returning, to me that would be a nightmare. I'm happy here in this country.
Australia (Perth anyway) is for people who want the 'retired' lifestyle, ok when you're at that age but not when you're young.

Hi janeyray

It's funny because these threads so often end up with people batting the "UK is best/Australia is best" ball back and forwards for hours, when the truth is that it is entirely contingent on subjective factors. There is no "absolute" in this debate.

I agree that most people on this site moving back to the UK from Australia generally cite homesickness. For some reason, those in Canada do not suffer from this ailment. Given that Australia and Canada generally attract very different types of British people, I think the kind of person is more relevant when explaining this than the country or the distance.

If one has a large network of friends, and packed social life, and close ties to family that live nearby, then I'm not sure what business one has moving to Australia anyway. A swimming pool will not make a good substitute for these things, and after just a few weeks, homesickness will set in. What a waste of time, money and aspirations.

But if you have none of these things, then frankly you have nothing keeping you here, and it would be a smart and exciting thing to move to Australia - especially if you can wipe the mortgage out while you're at it.

Basically, you can't tell till you've been there and tried it. That said, I hope you are happy back in the UK and remain so.

Regards
T.

Depends on what you do for a living. Its not rediculous for us, its completely true. In Sydney as an early 30's accountant the local going rate was about $110,000 per year. On that salary we could arrord a very moderate house way way out of the city in a bland suburb. We moved back to London where my salary comfortably pays for a large 3 bed semi with a 500 sq m back garden in a pretty Surrey suburb half an hour from the city by train and enough left for a mortgage on a ski apartment in France. We are now moving to Bristol where my local salary there is sufficient to pay for the large 4 bed detached with very large gardens in a pretty village half an hour from the city centre by car, which we have just had an offer accepted on. We are way way better off financially in both London and Bristol than we were in Sydney. You can't generalise, many professionals are financially far better off in the UK and Australian salaries represent quite a large downgrade in material lifestyle, compensated for by having no leisure time in my case!

I agree that many professionals will find life more profitable in places like London and NYC. But not all professions - academics for example earn far more in North America than they can in the UK, etc. If you move to themost expensive part of Australia then of course you will find it hard work. Adelaide property is significantly cheaper than Sydney property, and you therefore get a lot more for your money.

A cursory glance through rightmove.co.uk just now revealed several four bedroom detached properties within 10 miles of Bristol and their values ranged from 1.5 million to the cheapest which was a horrible brand-new Barratt Box with a 8x8 metre garden, and it cost £190,000. This is $450,000.

So it seems to me that the wealthy British can expect to be no better off in Australia, while regular people can expect an increase in the standard of living, or put another way, Britain is kinder to the rich, and always has been, while Australia is a better provider to the wider population.

Honestly, what is this forum's obsession with the who-can-pee-the-highest argument between Australia and the UK? It's an argument that can only ever be based on generalisation so, forgive me, but it seems a little redundant.

There are plenty of things I love and dislike about both the UK and Australia. I had a good life out in Oz and a completely different, but equally good life here in the UK. In my opinion, it's not necessarily where you are, but who you're with and why you're there.

I made it clear in an earlier post that this debate is redundant purely because it is contingent on subjective assessment and there can never be a "right" place to live.

But where there can be a right and a wrong is in the property sector, where Australia comes out as a better place to be. Simple.

Well there you go, what would I know. I won't pretend to know anything about the property sector but then I didn't read this thread to be purely a discussion of relative house prices. My mistake.

If only life was as simple and straightforward as the property sector.

Threads devolve away from initial subjects. They always have done, they always will. And if your life is pretty much as you want it with the exception of property problems, then it is all you are concerned with.

I think there is alot of truth in Tablelands fair comments. Herman - I've just looked over some of his older posts - represents a minority - few UK professional's earn salaries (say) over GBP70. For people like him, the UK may well prove to be a tidy little earner. But for a lot of middle ranking people earning 'low' - middle incomes say around 20-30K Australia can be an option providing they can get over homesickness and escape the bland suburbs. For everyone complaining about low Australian wages, there is probably someone achieving a good salary somewhere.

Different strokes for different folks.

Tableland,

You choose to sideline anecdotal tales of people's own experience, instead opting for sweeping generalisations that imply that all of Australia is equal. Neither approach is representative of the entire country. Property in Australia is not 3.5x more expensive than the UK in general. Location is a key factor, as most people who have experienced it will tell you. There is massive variation in prices between the states, and equally as much variation between city/bush. You may pick up a 3 bed unit for under $100k in a rural community 500kms north of Melbourne, but someone a thousand km away in Sydney would not get even the proverbial shoebox for that amount. $100k in Sydney would buy you a parking space. So which suburb within a few kms of Sydney did you find the 4 bedroom house, with 2 bathrooms, a spa, a full-size swimming pool, large gardens and double garage, for $250k? (surely a fair equivalent to your reference to London).

As regards getting onto the property ladder, how easy do you think it is for say, a Melburnian earning $35-40k to get onto the ladder in a city where the average house price is $360k? Even a house at $200k is 5x salary, and for that price your location will be restricted. With 40% of Australia's population liveing in Sydney and Melbourne alone, we are not talking about a tiny minority being priced out of the market. And chances are, even incentives like the FHOG won't offset the 6% stamp duty. 30 year mortgages are common. It's not all an easy dream, not when you factor in local salaries too.

Good luck with your move.

I don't know that the latter is true. In particular, academics working in expensive places like NY or San Fran for example are pretty poor, especially property-wise. Houses can be 3 x what they are elsewhere, but salaries are hardly much higher than elsewhere in the country (I applied for a job in San Diego, and thought "What! You want me to live on what salary? Where will I live - in a shoe box 2hrs commute from here?")

Even here in rural NC I wouldn't say I'm greatly better off as an academic, compared to how I could be if I were in the UK. Obviously I am just one anecdotal example, but I don't think academics here are on particulatrly high salaries.

One exception is the opportunity to earn extra via summer teaching salaries - but even that is becoming scarce in many universities.

Tableland

1. Oh yes, there are a lot of 4 bedroom houses, with 2 bathrooms, a spa, a full-size swimming pool, large gardens and double garage, and just a few miles from the centre of London for £110,000 here in the UK. Remax Australia has several of this price according to a search I made 5 minutes ago.

It really depends on where you are comparing. In Sydney you will not get a 4 bedroom house in an area that you would live (i.e. safe) for less than $700,000. If you search 'all Australia' then of course you'll find lots - in the back of beyond or crime-ridden areas! Also you have to remember that property here is generally NOT double skinned brick, double glazing, central heating, etc. Usually you get maximum one skin of brick, and single glazing, no central heating (believe me, you need it in winter here and houses are much colder than British ones), etc. Build quality is very low here.

2. Britain now has two seasons, wet and grey, and wet, cold and grey.

I lived in Bournemouth for 3 years and do not relete to this sentence at all. Move south. It's interesting how people remmeber and percieve things. I remember my life in Bournemouth as warm and sunny and fun. And the winter weather was no big deal - I could do without it but I could also do without the summer or current fly season here!

3. Who cares about beaches anywhere? No one should decide where they want to live based on large heaps of silicon.

Beaches are great but the attraction does wear off.

4. As a 3 bedroom mid-terrace with no parking in the South of England currently costs £190,000, you will have trouble finding in this region a detached 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom house for less than £350,000. If youwant the spa, pool and double garage I would think you're looking at closer to £750,000. I would say that British property is about 3.5 times more expensive than Australian, maybe more. People here frequently borrow 7 times their salaries to get on the house chain.

Not if you live in Sydney or Melbourne *or Brisbane or Canberra now). To get a reasonable 3 bedroom house (terrace or small semi or very small 2 BR deteched) in Sydney (a reasonable area) is 7 times my salary. I am a University lecturer.

5. If you live too far from work, you can move.

Yes, and you can pay 7 times your salary for a house. But I could move jobs right? No.

Basically, arguing that life is financially easier here in the UK is ridiculous, especially when you consider that most British people who move to Australia have an enormous advantage over their Australian neighbours because many of them can take over huge sums of money from the sale of their British homes and wipe away most of their Australian mortgages in an instant.

Life in the UK IS financially easier for us because I can earn a lot more in the UK and on the south coast a house coasts the same or less than Sydney. You cannot generalise to all of Australia. If you are thinking of the major ciies, then financially you will have a shock. Also the top rate of tax is higher here and many or most things to buy are more expensive here due to lower economies of scale (e.g, food). Eating out is one of few exceptions.

Also factor in holiday time. Most people get the statutory 20 days A/L here. I got 28 in th UK. Subtract time you wish tospend visiting friends and family once per year/2 years/3years... Then there is the issue of isolation and distance/time regarding travel.

Australia sounds like a utopian dream from the UK until you actually live here. Then you see the reality of life - things are not much different. Honestly - I actually preferred the south coast of England, marginally.

I'm afraid there seem to be a lot of generalisations in your posts Tableland. For many, many people, the UK and Australia turn out to be not much different in quality of life. We love both countries dearly, but we have now got over all of the disillusionment (I could have written your post, 3 years ago!)...

When you've actually lived it, you'll understand.