Dear All

Some interesting information from DIMIA. Some of you may know that if you are assessed as a tradeperson by the TRA to migrate to Australia, that they issue a 'deeming date'. You cannot count work experience for your application unless it was accrued after this deeming date.

Well now that the Australian Computer Society have changed their assessing procedures to requires holders of overseas qualifications to also have an additional 4 years work experience, they are also puttng a 'deeming' date on these assessments. DIMIA will only count work experience AFTER this deeming date.

Regards

Steven O'Neil
Perth
www.iscah.com

Steven (and Alan and George),

This seems to run counter to what George has been saying in another thread (that there will no longer be deeming dates attached to ACS assessments for applications assessed from Oct 1, 2002 onwards).

Although I'm personally not affected, this deeming date issue continues to be one that confuses even migration agents? Hmm....


Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter

I talked to ACS today and they said ...

'We put a "met requirements" date on all suitable letters.'

DIMIA have confirmed today that they will only count work experience after this date.

Regards

Steven O'Neil
Perth
www.iscah.com

Hi Steven,

That DIMIA will only count experience after any given deeming date is not in doubt. That's been known for quite some time already, and that hasn't changed.

What's less constant and clear is how and whether ACS puts deeming dates on their skills assessment reports. George has mentioned before that he's sure that deeming dates are a thing of the past post Oct 1, 2002. Alan and yourself beg to differ.

All three of you have communication with ACS, so what gives?


Peter

Hi Peter

DIMIA only ever made a deal of these deeming dates for TRA. And even then this policy changed over different periods of time and different processing offices.

For example before 1st of July 1999 the deeming date was significant. From July 1999 until November 2001 we had many applications lodged around the world where the deeming date was not an issue at all. Then from Adelaide (nov 2001) coming back on line the deeming date was used again.

So the ACS now also issuing these deeming dates raised the question of whether DIMIA would take issue with this in regards their assessment of accrued work experience. They have. I do not agree it was always going to be the case as there are numerous examples of work experience being counted when in fact people do not even have a skills assessment for that occupation.

ie say an engineer, skills assessed by IEA then works as a tradesman to get his 12 out of 18 months work experience. DIMIA do not even ask for the skills assessment for that trade. So how can they know if he has the skill level or not in his work.

But anyhow they have now confirmed their view. Which is rally interesting as it means to meet the minimum requirement you will need for example an IT degree plus 4 years work experience plus at least 1 year more (to meet 12 of 18 months). Study in Australia has never looked more attractive as you only have to complete an 18 month qualification under present rules.

I cannot talk for other agents who have also you say checked with ACS. I can only say what I confirmed with them today.

Regards

Steven O'Neil
www.iscah.com

Steven,

Thanks for that. Yes, DIMIA seems to have a "seasonal" interest in deeming dates, as reported by various people over the years.

What's interesting to note, going by what the ACS told you today, is that ACS now issues deeming dates for all its applicants - including Group A people. This effectively puts the number of years of IT work experience at 4+1 years minumum for Group A or 6+1 years for Group B and RPL, with the exception of Group C applicants.

And this would also mean that ICT applicants will need to have 4+(1+2) or 6+(1+2) years of IT experience (or something related for the final 3 years) in order to get past the basic requirement's recent work experience and the skills points plus the specific work experience points. This would inadvertantly mean that ICT applicants now would be, more likely than not, above 30 years old, i.e. -5 for age.


Peter

Hi Peter

Yes, it is a significant change now in how IT people will be able to meet the requirements given the experience and as you point out, age factor.

The enquiry and reply I got back from ACS were as follows ...




Dear Caroline

Do the ACS now put 'deeming' dates on all their assessment for overseas
qualified people. I have just received some conflicting advice on this. I
thought you did.

Regards
Steven O'Neil



Hello,

We put a "met requirements" date on all suitable letters.

Regards,

Caroline Hatch
Skills Assessment Officer




Regards
Steven O'Neil
www.iscah.com

Steven,

Thanks for including the correspondence between you and ACS.

I'm a sucker for legalities; Caroline did not actually say that all ACS assessments will now carry a deeming date (or "met requirements" date). As far as I read her reply, she said that all "suitable" letters will be 'slapped' with a deeming date. This may still refer to RPL and/or Group B letters only, and not Group A ones.

Just my interpretation, which I'm sure won't be the only version that'll come out of the reading of the text!


Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter

Must admit I did not put that interpretation on it. But will be wise to check so have gone back to Caroline to see if it covers all groups.

Regards

Steven O'Neil
www.iscah.com

Ah, this does indeed seem to conflict with what George has said then (& confirms what I have found in my experience recently).
See my post & Alans comments on this thread :
http://britishexpats.com/forum/t100305.html

Thanks Baloo

I will check again with the ACS to make sure it is all groups as Peter has raised that issue. Did not realise there was another thread on this. But my main point of concern was whether the policy of the TRA will now be extended to the ACS. Seems it will regards deeming dates. I wonder where it will stop.

I have always had a problem with these deeming dates in that visa applicants are doing the work at the skill level often well before the deeming date. You take the following example ...

1) An accountant gets skills assessed as an accountant. And for the work experience has worked as a programmer for the last 12 months. DIMIA does not ask for skills assessment as an IT professional. And provided work experience is evidenced properly, is allowed to count this 12 months in IT.

2) An IT professional gets skills assessed as an IT professional. Deeming date of 1st of June 2002. Has worked as an IT professional for 4 and a half years until now. Can only count the final 6 months towards the 12 months work experience requirement.

I would say that the person in example (2) was much more likely to be working at the appropriate skill level of an IT person. Seems crazy.

Even more crazily that person in example (2) could be working instead as a marketing consultant, or an accountant and be allowed to count the work experience without any sort of skills assessment at all.

Regards

Steven O'Neil
www.iscah.com

Hi Steven,

I have seen the content of this thread and I think some clarification is
required, but it would help if you named your sources at both ACS and DIMIA.

For as long as ACS has been offering RPL assessments these assessments have
contained a sentence stating that the relevant professional expertise could
be "inferred" from a particular date.

Until earlier this year, the "inferred" date was the date that the four
years' work experience had been completed, and with the change in approach
to deeming dates which took place in DIMIA in November 2001, that date
became significant.

Since the new ACS guidelines were introduced in October 2002, the "inferred"
date has been the date the assessor believes the individual is fully
qualified (and that seems to be at the beginning of the six year period
although ACS in our experience is not consistent about this).

For Group A and Group B assessments by ACS I still don't believe there is
any problem with an inferral date, they just quote the qualification on
which the individual relies, and that is the date of relevance.

I have had discussions about this with Sarah Paul and I think you will find
that the deeming date problems have been largely overcome by the post
October policy. We have also been able to request ACS to give amended
skills assessments since then quoting an earlier date in view of the new
policy.

So I am not really sure which situation you raised with ACS but I suspect it
was a pre-October assessment with a deeming date at the end of the relevant
period. If you have had a post-October assessment with such a deeming date
all I can say is that this is not consistent with the experiences of our
clients.

Cheers

George Lombard
--
www.austimmigration.com.au


"Steven O'Neil" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dear All
    > Some interesting information from DIMIA. Some of you may know that if
    > you are assessed as a tradeperson by the TRA to migrate to Australia,
    > that they issue a 'deeming date'. You cannot count work experience for
    > your application unless it was accrued after this deeming date.
    > Well now that the Australian Computer Society have changed their
    > assessing procedures to requires holders of overseas qualifications to
    > also have an additional 4 years work experience, they are also puttng a
    > 'deeming' date on these assessments. DIMIA will only count work
    > experience AFTER this deeming date.
    > Regards
    > Steven O'Neil
    > Perth
    > www.iscah.com
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Looking at your examples Steven, it does seem to be rather at odds doesn't it?
Was it perhaps meant to be so strict during the IT fast track phase, to ensure that only those with genuine skills were considered? And perhaps hasn't been updated to come in line with other skills assessment authorities?

Hi Baloo

The recent changes to make it tougher on IT people is a combination of many skilled migrants not having ready to use IT skills, and the general flattening in demand for IT skills in Australia.

The issue about 'deeming' dates is I think the way that the legilslation is worded. There is no indication that IT or trades people are any less skilled than other occupation, but as soon as the skills authorities start using 'completion' and 'deeming' dates it puts DIMIA in a corner.

TRA are not in favour of discounting work before the deeming date. But it is not their decision, it is DIMIAs. However it is the TRA who put the deeming date on their assessments. There was some thought to take this date off, but I am not sure of all the issues involved in doing that.

Regards

Steven O'Neil
www.iscah.com

Thanks for making that clearer Steven. I understand now what you're saying, and have a better idea of the issues at hand.