Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Old May 19th 2014, 12:10 am
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Default Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Hi,

I'm currently working in Saskatchewan Canada under work permit issued under the IEC which expires next month, The company which l currently work for has instructed there immigration lawyers to arrange a new work permit for myself back in January. It was only at the end of April that they submitted the application for a LMO after the required advertising of my position within the company was complete which took a long time for my company to arrange.

This now means that my new work permit will not be ready before my current IEC permit runs out. After contacting the immigration lawyer l was told that they have requested service Canada to expedite the application for the LMO which they say will take 3-4 weeks and the LMO should be ready by the end of May. To which they will then apply for a "Work permit extension" 1-2 weeks before my current IEC work permit expires, and that l will be granted "Implied status" so l can continue working under the conditions of my expired work permit until a new one is issued.

Now what l am confused with is that from what l have read on this forum and else where a IEC work permit can not be extend and that someone whos IEC work permit is about to expire can not remain on implied status. When l questioned this to the Immigration lawyer l was told that l will have implied status as they are filling under a different category.

Am l correct in thinking that the advice l have been given by the lawyer is incorrect and that l must change my immigration status to that of a visitor and stop working until a new work permit not a extension has been issued?


Thanks, Alex
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Old May 19th 2014, 12:30 am
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Ask the lawyer which different category of Implied Status are they applying under?
Work permits issued under the IEC CANNOT be extended.
What they are doing initially is correct by applying for the LMO to get a new work permit issued.
* Participants in international youth exchange programs (e.g., Student Work Abroad Program (SWAP), International Experience Canada (IEC) or Working Holiday Program (WHP)) do not benefit from implied status, unless extending a work permit not initially issued for the time limit authorized by the program.

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Old May 19th 2014, 2:46 am
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Originally Posted by tatters86
Hi,

I'm currently working in Saskatchewan Canada under work permit issued under the IEC which expires next month, The company which l currently work for has instructed there immigration lawyers to arrange a new work permit for myself back in January. It was only at the end of April that they submitted the application for a LMO after the required advertising of my position within the company was complete which took a long time for my company to arrange.

This now means that my new work permit will not be ready before my current IEC permit runs out. After contacting the immigration lawyer l was told that they have requested service Canada to expedite the application for the LMO which they say will take 3-4 weeks and the LMO should be ready by the end of May. To which they will then apply for a "Work permit extension" 1-2 weeks before my current IEC work permit expires, and that l will be granted "Implied status" so l can continue working under the conditions of my expired work permit until a new one is issued.

Now what l am confused with is that from what l have read on this forum and else where a IEC work permit can not be extend and that someone whos IEC work permit is about to expire can not remain on implied status. When l questioned this to the Immigration lawyer l was told that l will have implied status as they are filling under a different category.

Am l correct in thinking that the advice l have been given by the lawyer is incorrect and that l must change my immigration status to that of a visitor and stop working until a new work permit not a extension has been issued?


Thanks, Alex
You are correct, the immigration lawyer is not. You can't have implied status as your original work permit (IEC) doesn't come under the legislation that allows it.

If they get an approved LMO prior to your IEC expiring then you could take the LMO, your contract, your current IEC work permit and go to the border and get a new TWP. It would be a lot quicker than applying online for one.

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Old May 21st 2014, 7:03 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Thanks for the replies


I emailed the immigration lawyer back at the weekend and received a reply today after stating about not being eliable for implied status or extension of my current work permit (issued under IEC) with information others have quoted in relation to this issue. Along with asking what they mean by filling under a different category.



The reply l received was:

We will apply for your work permit extension based on the LMO application category and not International Experience Canada (IEC). The LMO application for you was field already on April 28, 2014.

Based on that, you will have implied status in Canada after your work permit expires on June 12, 2014 if we file the extension until June 12.

I dont think l am getting though to them at all, My employer is also sticking by the Lawyer since they have paid them alot in fees so far which puts me in a worrying suitation if l stop work when l my IEC issued work permit runs out l will loose my job on the other hand if l keep working which would be illegal work l risk my future in Canada.
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Old May 21st 2014, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Originally Posted by tatters86
Thanks for the replies


I emailed the immigration lawyer back at the weekend and received a reply today after stating about not being eliable for implied status or extension of my current work permit (issued under IEC) with information others have quoted in relation to this issue. Along with asking what they mean by filling under a different category.
The reply l received was:

Quote:
We will apply for your work permit extension based on the LMO application category and not International Experience Canada (IEC). The LMO application for you was field already on April 28, 2014.

Based on that, you will have implied status in Canada after your work permit expires on June 12, 2014 if we file the extension until June 12.
I dont think l am getting though to them at all, My employer is also sticking by the Lawyer since they have paid them alot in fees so far which puts me in a worrying suitation if l stop work when l my IEC issued work permit runs out l will loose my job on the other hand if l keep working which would be illegal work l risk my future in Canada.
I would be concerned about the level of knowledge of the Lawyer too.

You can only be on implied status if the work permit you currently have comes under the relevant legislation.

Perhaps you should tell them:

1) Subsection 201(1) is the provision that allows you to extend a work permit.
2) Section 186(u) provides implied status to those work permit holders who have made an application under subsection 201(1).
3) IEC permits cannot be extended therefore 201(1) is not applicable.
4) An IEC permit holder cannot have implied status as provided by 186(u) because they cannot make a valid application under 201(1).

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Old May 21st 2014, 7:35 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Originally Posted by tatters86
Thanks for the replies


I emailed the immigration lawyer back at the weekend and received a reply today after stating about not being eliable for implied status or extension of my current work permit (issued under IEC) with information others have quoted in relation to this issue. Along with asking what they mean by filling under a different category.



The reply l received was:




I dont think l am getting though to them at all, My employer is also sticking by the Lawyer since they have paid them alot in fees so far which puts me in a worrying suitation if l stop work when l my IEC issued work permit runs out l will loose my job on the other hand if l keep working which would be illegal work l risk my future in Canada.
The lawyer is NOT correct. You absolutely cannot continue working once your IEC expires.

I can see where this is really frustrating for you, so here's the tools you will need to show your employer that you CANNOT continue working.

1) The Temporary Foreign Worker's handbook: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...w/fw01-eng.pdf You are on IEC right now, which is a type of TFW, so this handbook applies to you.

2) Open it up to Section 5.22, "Implied Status". That says that if you have applied for a new work permit, you can keep working under the conditions of your old work permit - that is, the conditions of your IEC visa. So, let's look at the conditions of your IEC visa.

3) Open it up to Section 5.34, to the paragraph that begins with "Conditions of Work Permit", and highlight this line:
IEC participants may not request to extend their stay under IEC unless the extension is within the original authorized period of stay as per their LOI.
It is explicitly a condition of IEC that you cannot ask for an extension. Implied Status is a type of extension - a temporary extension that is meant to bridge you between your old permit expiring, and your new one being issued.

So, for you to benefit from implied status, you need to have a work permit that can be extended. It says right there, IEC cannot be extended. Because you cannot extend IEC, you cannot benefit from implied status.

Let's say you had a normal TWP which was expiring, and your employer was going through the process of getting you another work permit. TWPs can be extended, so if you apply for a new work permit, you can extend your current TWP to cover you. You are bound by the same conditions as the original TWP for the time you are implied status, until your new WP is issued.

But, you are not on a normal TWP. You are on IEC, which is valid for one year, and one year only, with no extensions. Therefore, because there is nothing to extend, you can't benefit from implied status.

4) In case they want to see it in more black and white, then open up the IEC UK's FAQ page here: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca...ience/faq.aspx

Point out the "Work and Study" section, Question 5:

5. I am currently in Canada with a work permit issued under the IEC initiative. My employer would like me to continue working after the permit expires. Is this possible? What should I do?

You may not work in Canada without holding a valid work permit. A work permit issued under the IEC initiative cannot be renewed or extended. Sometimes it is possible to obtain a work permit under the Temporary Foreign Workers program.

If you wish to extend your stay in Canada under Citizenship and Immigration Canada’s Temporary Foreign Workers Program, you must apply for a work permit at least 30 days before the expiry date of your current work permit under IEC.

Go to Citizenship and Immigration Canada or call 1-888-242-2100 to check the requirements for changing the conditions of your permit or extending your stay in Canada. You should make your inquiries after entry to Canada, while your current work permit is still valid.
5) And just in case they want to see it anywhere else: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcen...asp?q=181&t=17

Hopefully that gives you enough information to go back to your employer and the lawyer with... as the saying goes, throw the book at them. It's right there.

I hope that helps you, and that your employer sees that the lawyer is incorrect. It helps to go in armed with evidence, so I will keep my fingers crossed for you that you don't lose your job over it. But, in my opinion, better you lose your job and search around for a new one than work illegally and close the door on staying in Canada completely.

Good luck.
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Old May 21st 2014, 10:03 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Thank you thank you to Siouxie, Schnookololy & PMM for finally finding the appropriate IRPA regs regarding IEC work permits and not being able to extend them.
These 2 answers should be added to the read me Implied IEC status thread. I was going to copy and paste them into that thread but its closed. Perhaps a mod and their magic powers can add both the above replies into that.
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Old May 21st 2014, 10:34 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Thank you thank you to Siouxie, Schnookololy & PMM for finally finding the appropriate IRPA regs regarding IEC work permits and not being able to extend them.
These 2 answers should be added to the read me Implied IEC status thread. I was going to copy and paste them into that thread but its closed. Perhaps a mod and their magic powers can add both the above replies into that.
Your wish is my command.



Thank you FL...
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Old May 22nd 2014, 12:39 am
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

I'll have an update as well that deals with iec to pr, but will post tomorrow as I'm just on my phone.
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Old May 22nd 2014, 1:19 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Okay, I've updated the post below to account for when someone is coming off of IEC and a) applying for PR, and b) applying for a work permit. I've also cleaned it up a bit for the purposes of a stand-alone post, so Siouxie, if you feel it's appropriate, you can update my post in the sticky with the bit below.

Also, unless I'm losing my mind, R201(1) has been removed completely from the handbook; only R186 now deals with all manner of working without a work permit. I've just spent a half-hour trying to find the bit of the handbook that references R201(1) but I can't find it anywhere, so if someone can double-check that for me, I'd appreciate that.

-----

What you need to know about IEC and Implied Status

The question often comes up on whether people who in Canada under the IEC program can benefit from Implied Status. There is a lot of misconception about this, particularly in that many immigration lawyers and the CIC helpline often tell people that they CAN benefit from implied status. In fact, you CANNOT benefit from implied status if you are coming off of an IEC visa. However, it's logical that most people will think "I'll believe the immigration consultant, not some stranger on the internet", so to arm yourself with the correct information, here are references from CIC itself and from the Temporary Foreign Worker's Handbook - official sources that clarify the situation.

1) The Temporary Foreign Worker's handbook: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...w/fw01-eng.pdf
IEC is a type of temporary foreign worker (TFW), so this handbook applies to you.

2) What is the definition of "Implied Status"?
Open it up to Section 5.22, "Work without a work permit R186(u)—Implied status". Implied status is defined as:
R186(u) allows for persons to continue working under the conditions of an expired work permit, as long as they applied for a new work permit before the original work permit expired and have remained in Canada.
That says that if you have applied for a new work permit, you can keep working under the conditions of your old work permit.

Implied Status is a type of extension - a temporary extension that is meant to bridge you between your old permit expiring, and your new one being issued.

If you have applied for PR outland: Then R186(u), Implied Status, cannot possibly apply to you because you have not applied for a new work permit. Since PR is not a type of work permit, you cannot claim to have applied for a new work permit, and therefore you cannot benefit from implied status.

If you have applied for PR inland: Inland applications USED to allow for an open work permit (OWP) to be filed at the same time as the application, however, applications for an OWP are no longer accepted at the time of application. You can only apply for an OWP after you have received sponsor approval, which at the time of writing this, takes about 10 months. So, unlike the limitation in an outland application, you fulfil the criteria that you have to have applied for a new work permit, so you are just bound by the conditions of your old work permit - that is, the conditions of your IEC visa. So, let's look at the conditions of your IEC visa - skip to (3).

If you have applied for a work permit (TWP, OWP, CEC, etc): You fulfil the criteria that you have to have applied for a new work permit, so you are just bound by the conditions of your old work permit - that is, the conditions of your IEC visa. So, let's look at the conditions of your IEC visa.

3) Conditions of the IEC work permit
Open it up to Section 5.34, "Canadian interests: Reciprocal employment—International Experience Canada (IEC) (formerly known as the International Youth Programs and International Exchange Programs) R205(b), C21".
Find the paragraph that begins with "Conditions of Work Permit", and take note of this line:
IEC participants may not request to extend their stay under IEC unless the extension is within the original authorized period of stay as per their LOI.
It is explicitly a condition of IEC that you cannot ask for an extension.
Some people say "but I'm not asking for an extension of my IEC, I'm asking for a new work permit!" But you *are* asking for an extension. Implied Status just means you are asking to extend the validity and conditions of your current work permit in order for you to continue working until a decision has been made on the application for your new work permit.

So, for you to benefit from implied status (i.e., an extension of your current work permit), you need to have a work permit that can be extended.

It says right there, IEC cannot be extended. Because you cannot extend IEC, you cannot benefit from implied status.

Let's say you had a normal TWP which was expiring, and your employer was going through the process of getting you another work permit. TWPs can be extended, so if you apply for a new work permit, you can extend your current TWP to cover you in the interim. You are bound by the same conditions as the original TWP for the time you are implied status, until your new WP is issued.

But, you are not on a normal TWP. You are on IEC, which is valid for one year, and one year only, with no extensions. Therefore, because there is nothing to extend, you can't benefit from implied status.

4) What does CIC's website have to say about it?
CIC addresses this question directly on their FAQ page, here: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca...ience/faq.aspx

Find the "Work and Study" section, and take note of Question 5:
5. I am currently in Canada with a work permit issued under the IEC initiative. My employer would like me to continue working after the permit expires. Is this possible? What should I do?

You may not work in Canada without holding a valid work permit. A work permit issued under the IEC initiative cannot be renewed or extended. Sometimes it is possible to obtain a work permit under the Temporary Foreign Workers program.

If you wish to extend your stay in Canada under Citizenship and Immigration Canada’s Temporary Foreign Workers Program, you must apply for a work permit at least 30 days before the expiry date of your current work permit under IEC.

Go to Citizenship and Immigration Canada or call 1-888-242-2100 to check the requirements for changing the conditions of your permit or extending your stay in Canada. You should make your inquiries after entry to Canada, while your current work permit is still valid.
5) But I want to beat the dead horse!
Information that explicitly states you cannot work after the expiry of your work permit is also here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcen...asp?q=181&t=17

In summary:
--If you have applied for PR outland, you cannot benefit from implied status because you have not applied for a new work permit.
--If you have applied for a new work permit (either via inland PR or directly) then you can only benefit from implied status if you have an work permit that can be extended
--IEC cannot be extended
--Therefore implied status cannot possibly apply to IEC
--Therefore those on IEC visas cannot benefit from implied status under any circumstance.

-----

Anyone feel free to edit this, check for errors, etc etc. If it's going to be a sticky thread then it should be as accurate as possible and should cover at least the most common scenarios people ask about. Thanks!

PS: Worth possibly getting this added to the wiki as well?

Last edited by SchnookoLoly; May 22nd 2014 at 1:26 pm.
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Old May 22nd 2014, 1:39 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Can I just ask about this line:

IEC participants may not request to extend their stay under IEC unless the extension is within the original authorized period of stay as per their LOI.
I didn't work from May-October due to injury. However I still renewed my IEC when it expired stupidly as expected to return to work much sooner. Is there anyway I could try to apply to extend my IEC to cover this period it would still be within my LOI.


EDIT:

Ah I'm misreading this and misinterpreting it nevermind!
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Old May 22nd 2014, 2:28 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Thanks for that post SchnookoLoly,

I was able to use some of it to renforce my point to my employer and the immgration lawyer, the reply l recived today is below and as you can see they are still sticking to there guns....


The implied status applies until the new work permit is issued, which means that you can continue working for the same employer, at the same location (by virtue of having the valid IEC work permit at the time of filing). You will not have implied status if you try to extend under the IEC category, because this type of work permit is not extendable.

However, the law does not prohibit you to continue working in valid implied status if you change the work permit category (ie IEC to labour market based work permit or intra-company transfer to labour market based work permit or labour market based work permit to bridging work permit, and the list goes on). The foreign worker manual is not very clear in that respect and a layperson may easily misinterpret its provisions.
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Old May 22nd 2014, 2:32 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Originally Posted by tatters86
Thanks for that post SchnookoLoly,

I was able to use some of it to renforce my point to my employer and the immgration lawyer, the reply l recived today is below and as you can see they are still sticking to there guns....
Wow that's incredible that the continue to support their view.
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Old May 22nd 2014, 3:22 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

Originally Posted by tatters86
Thanks for that post SchnookoLoly,

I was able to use some of it to renforce my point to my employer and the immgration lawyer, the reply l recived today is below and as you can see they are still sticking to there guns....
Holy christ. All I can say is DO NOT WORK. You will risk your future if you do. They are not right.

I'll attempt to pick it apart:

The implied status applies until the new work permit is issued, which means that you can continue working for the same employer, at the same location (by virtue of having the valid IEC work permit at the time of filing). You will not have implied status if you try to extend under the IEC category, because this type of work permit is not extendable.

However, the law does not prohibit you to continue working in valid implied status if you change the work permit category (ie IEC to labour market based work permit or intra-company transfer to labour market based work permit or labour market based work permit to bridging work permit, and the list goes on). The foreign worker manual is not very clear in that respect and a layperson may easily misinterpret its provisions.
They are the layperson, haha.

Argh okay I have rewritten this about 15 times, and have even drawn a picture for you to show them.

The first part is right - IEC is not extendible. Brilliant. They get that.

What they don't get is that "implied status" = "extension". Implied status *IS* an extension.

There are two types of extensions:

1) Think of the first as a "known date" extension - extensions that say "extend my work permit for another x years". This is often what happens with TWPs. It will be issued for one year, and you have the option to extend it to I think a max of 3 years (or something like that). You are asking for an extension for a set amount of time.

2) The second is an "unknown date" extension - and this has its own name - "implied status". This is when you say "I have a work permit that expires on x date. I have applied for a new work permit. There will be a gap between the first permit expiring and the second one being issued. Therefore I would like to extend my first work permit to cover the time between my work permit expiring, and my new permit being issued. This could take a week or a month or a year."

Implied status *IS* a type of extension. In order to benefit from an extension, your visa has to be extendible. They've already acknowledged that IEC is not extendible, and therefore a person on an IEC visa cannot ask for an extension, and since implied status is a type of extension, IEC visa holders can't be extended.

--

You can point out as well that you can apply to change your status to a visitor for the interim - and you will need to do this anyway, as you need to have a valid status within Canada. If you apply to change your status to a visitor before your IEC expires and you haven't heard back from CIC when the IEC expires then you will have implied status as a visitor - that is, there is an assumption that your application to stay as a visitor will be approved. This is opposite to the work permit assumption. It will be assumed that you are a visitor up until a time you receive the decision on your application. Then you can stick around as a visitor while you wait for your work permit to come through - you don't have to leave the country.

Hopefully this helps... keep us updated... I feel for you.
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Old May 22nd 2014, 3:32 pm
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Default Re: Confused by Immigration Lawyer

=SchnookoLoly;11271537]Okay, I've updated the post below to account for when someone is coming off of IEC and a) applying for PR, and b) applying for a work permit. I've also cleaned it up a bit for the purposes of a stand-alone post, so Siouxie, if you feel it's appropriate, you can update my post in the sticky with the bit below.

Also, unless I'm losing my mind, R201(1) has been removed completely from the handbook; only R186 now deals with all manner of working without a work permit. I've just spent a half-hour trying to find the bit of the handbook that references R201(1) but I can't find it anywhere, so if someone can double-check that for me, I'd appreciate that.
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R201 (1) is still in the Regulations

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/r...4.html#docCont

Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (SOR/2002-227)

Application for renewal

201. (1) A foreign national may apply for the renewal of their work permit if

(a) the application is made before their work permit expires; and

(b) they have complied with all conditions imposed on their entry into Canada.

<big snip>

186(u)
(u) until a decision is made on an application made by them under subsection 201(1), if they have remained in Canada after the expiry of their work permit and they have continued to comply with the conditions set out on the expired work permit, other than the expiry date.


Last edited by Siouxie; May 22nd 2014 at 3:35 pm.
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