I know the main point you're making is valid (that we don't have reliable figures for the number of Brits in Spain at any one time), but surely if 1000s of Brits choose to be "sin papeles" how can that be the Spanish fault in failing to count them?
I'm sure there are illegal immigrants in the UK who are not on the census, pay no taxes, work on the black etc., but you wouldn't blame the UK govt for failing to count them (although you could well look at how the Border Agency allowed them in)?

thats easy they were trained by g4s

Well I've lived in the Cadiz area for the past eight years and I know of only one couple that has returned to the UK, and that was due to the woman missing the Grandchildren.

exactly what is used to count in the UK ??
some cite the census, others the electoral roll.

but in both instances people started to refuse to fill in that information when they were used (or was it just believed to be used) to enforce the poll tax. This form of disobedience was I believe started in Scotland where the poll tax was trialled. People just dropped off the planet, they have no trace. I don't think HMRC information is used in this way.

as to immigrants, with many thousands not recorded but no dead bodies from starvation they are getting food from somewhere, so have some form of support or income, albeit small. Fairly recently a gang master business was found to have been employing people without paying both employer and employee NIC's. This was only found out because of a VAT investigation that uncovered £millions not paid over something like a 5 year period.
A company went bust and when the staff all dropped off at the local jobcentre they were told they didnt exist, although they had paid NIC's on their payslip none had ever been paid to the authorities and couldnt get benefits.

too many different departments collecting information that isnt joined up.

i cant think of a working age british only couple still here ... they have all gone
except the bar flys and those working in the black ...

and the poll tax ,,that was almost 25 years ago ....scotland is on its way to independence ...they get their own NATIONAL POLICE FORCE next year with a scottish only oath .....

Best of luck to the Scots, I hope they are happy without the financial support of the English, receiving more per head support than the English counties.
I bet your police will want to cross the border when it is convenient for them, like calling in at a chippie middle of the night shift.
Perhaps when you are standing on your own 2 feet you will stop charging English students when giving education free to other EU countries.
What will you do with all those Scottish MP's the Labour Party have had to rely on for more than 25 years ?
But clicking back a few hundred years, you know you can rely on the French to give you a home and long term support..........

The Spanish have made a new law about European residents, essentially breaking with the Maastricht Accord (here), which we can, of course, ignore - until we need health assistance or other Spanish services.
Where are our 'European ID cards'? and why indeed are we classed as 'extranjeros' and not 'europeos'?

You won't get a European ID card until you can get a UK ID Card. Too many fluffy bunnies think that is a civil liberties stage too far and won't allow it.

Personally having spent large chunks of my life with an ID card of various types I see no problem with them.

I must say sometimes I wonder how many of the posters on here actually live in Spain!!

isnt that one of the wonders of internet forums like BE - having to guess and getting it wrong ? ?

Hi Golfy which part of Cadiz are you in, we live in the Cadiz area too in Chiclana. We have lost count of the number of families that have left over the years to return to the UK. Even know quite a few that have just simply done a runner leaving house and mortgage. Know even more that are practically giving their property away just to get back to the UK. Must say that most of them came here with no skills or a trade to actually earn a living though. And yes there are a few grandparents wanting to return who miss their families.