NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
#61
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
Except if measured by the Intentional Homicide rate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate
Now I'm commenting on the sweeping statement here, not South Africans per se...
Is this International tar-entire-populations-with-one-brush-good-or-bad day/month/year???
TBH the only trait I have noticed (or think I've noticed), is peeps living in NZ (don't all have to be Kiwi's), don't tend to put up with bad service for very long. But then "the English" are widely regarded in the world as TOO willing to put up with bad service without complaining...who is right? Both and neither I suspect.
TBH the more extreme a viewpoint (good or bad, left or right, up or down), the less likely it is to be representative of a population and more the inherently narrow personal experiences of the exponent. Doesn't make those views "wrong", just that they won't be representative. I find a balanced viewpoint that recognizes its limitations far more engaging IMHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate
Now I'm commenting on the sweeping statement here, not South Africans per se...
Is this International tar-entire-populations-with-one-brush-good-or-bad day/month/year???
TBH the only trait I have noticed (or think I've noticed), is peeps living in NZ (don't all have to be Kiwi's), don't tend to put up with bad service for very long. But then "the English" are widely regarded in the world as TOO willing to put up with bad service without complaining...who is right? Both and neither I suspect.
TBH the more extreme a viewpoint (good or bad, left or right, up or down), the less likely it is to be representative of a population and more the inherently narrow personal experiences of the exponent. Doesn't make those views "wrong", just that they won't be representative. I find a balanced viewpoint that recognizes its limitations far more engaging IMHO.
#62
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
Folks,
i'd just like to thank you all for your comments and posts. There is a little too many to reply to them all. I think that from what I've read, everyone has a different experience. What is for one person is not for the other. I suppose it also depends on how much you enjoyed your life back in the UK. We did, very much. We are lucky to have very supportive and loving families back home and I think that is the main thing pulling us back. If we loved it here we wouldn't mind paying extra for a beer or not having central heating. I've started the process of applying for jobs back in Scotland so hopefully we can be home for the baby coming.
Good luck to everyone in their own journeys, whether it be here or back in the UK.
i'd just like to thank you all for your comments and posts. There is a little too many to reply to them all. I think that from what I've read, everyone has a different experience. What is for one person is not for the other. I suppose it also depends on how much you enjoyed your life back in the UK. We did, very much. We are lucky to have very supportive and loving families back home and I think that is the main thing pulling us back. If we loved it here we wouldn't mind paying extra for a beer or not having central heating. I've started the process of applying for jobs back in Scotland so hopefully we can be home for the baby coming.
Good luck to everyone in their own journeys, whether it be here or back in the UK.
I can hear you load and clear on many of your points. I really like NZ and am happy here now but it was not always a bed of roses for me.
To me the key factor in your disatisfaction of the place is the baby that is on the way. My friends had a new baby when they came here and they so missed not being able to share him with their close friends and family that they left after 4 months and went back to England.
NZ can be a very lonely place when you are in a certain headspace and the lure of family can destroy any plans that you may have had to stay here.
I wish you and your family all the best with whatever you decide to do.
#63
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
I read your original post and I can relate to a lot of it.
In truth, I think I am generally happy wherever I am. What seems to affect me though is the cost of living and in particular being able to meet your aspirations.
I understand it is slightly different with you and your wife being pregnant!
We received the news yet AGAIN today that we have to move out of our rental property (this has happened twice in 18 months). The landlords daughter wants to buy her property and move in (school zone and kids). We currently pay $500 a week in Milford for a good sized 3-bed detached bungalow/unit. We've been here just over a year.
So I've spent most of today looking at rental properties online and I really really am so disgusted with the prices of property.
To get what we have now we'll need to increase by at least another 100-150 NZD a WEEK.
We went back to England in September and found it really shocking how much cheaper houses appeared to be, i.e. westcountry/hampshire/salisbury I could go on... (apart from inner London) and just the build quality.
The mrs and I earn a decent income here (about 150K per annum) yet for us to buy a house in a location for public transport to/from Auckland city we need to borrow at least 700, maybe even 800K NZD.
I am really starting to feel "over" Auckland, despite us loving the East Coast Bays. I'm sure its better elsewhere in NZ, but its finding the work and it just seems mission impossible to meet the aspirations I have.
Let us know what decision you come to regarding your situation and good luck with it all.
In truth, I think I am generally happy wherever I am. What seems to affect me though is the cost of living and in particular being able to meet your aspirations.
I understand it is slightly different with you and your wife being pregnant!
We received the news yet AGAIN today that we have to move out of our rental property (this has happened twice in 18 months). The landlords daughter wants to buy her property and move in (school zone and kids). We currently pay $500 a week in Milford for a good sized 3-bed detached bungalow/unit. We've been here just over a year.
So I've spent most of today looking at rental properties online and I really really am so disgusted with the prices of property.
To get what we have now we'll need to increase by at least another 100-150 NZD a WEEK.
We went back to England in September and found it really shocking how much cheaper houses appeared to be, i.e. westcountry/hampshire/salisbury I could go on... (apart from inner London) and just the build quality.
The mrs and I earn a decent income here (about 150K per annum) yet for us to buy a house in a location for public transport to/from Auckland city we need to borrow at least 700, maybe even 800K NZD.
I am really starting to feel "over" Auckland, despite us loving the East Coast Bays. I'm sure its better elsewhere in NZ, but its finding the work and it just seems mission impossible to meet the aspirations I have.
Let us know what decision you come to regarding your situation and good luck with it all.
#64
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
Interesting thread.
I have always had mixer feelings about New Zealand, and found it has its goods and bad points.
Anyone who says the UK sucks and New Zealand rules, I really have to wonder get they could come to that conclusion, and if your life really was that bad in the UK for you to have that opinion I just wonder where you went wrong.
New Zealand benefits are weather and an "easy" pace of life, nice place to raise a family and settle down
UK benefits are culture, people, career opportunities, easy travel, more to do.
By and large both are what you make of it, but some just suit certain people more.
Neither of them "sucks" though, and the horror stories of doom and gloom and dog poo that get spread about the UK I think is sour grapes or people who are trying to kid themselves into something
Like I said in other thread I am thinking of moving back home to London, not because of anything wrong with nz, but at 25 I think London has more to offer in life than nz can offer me right now.
I could see myself coming back in 20 years or so though
I have always had mixer feelings about New Zealand, and found it has its goods and bad points.
Anyone who says the UK sucks and New Zealand rules, I really have to wonder get they could come to that conclusion, and if your life really was that bad in the UK for you to have that opinion I just wonder where you went wrong.
New Zealand benefits are weather and an "easy" pace of life, nice place to raise a family and settle down
UK benefits are culture, people, career opportunities, easy travel, more to do.
By and large both are what you make of it, but some just suit certain people more.
Neither of them "sucks" though, and the horror stories of doom and gloom and dog poo that get spread about the UK I think is sour grapes or people who are trying to kid themselves into something
Like I said in other thread I am thinking of moving back home to London, not because of anything wrong with nz, but at 25 I think London has more to offer in life than nz can offer me right now.
I could see myself coming back in 20 years or so though
Last edited by Infern0; Dec 5th 2012 at 5:21 am.
#65
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 115
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
#66
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Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
I was trying to be diplomatic as some people get upset if you say you would never come back
#67
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
if your life really was that bad in the UK for you to have that opinion I just wonder where you went wrong.
Neither of them "sucks" though, and the horror stories of doom and gloom and dog poo that get spread about the UK I think is sour grapes or people who are trying to kid themselves into something
Neither of them "sucks" though, and the horror stories of doom and gloom and dog poo that get spread about the UK I think is sour grapes or people who are trying to kid themselves into something
You can't really say that because someone's life in the UK isn't working out that it's because they went wrong and it's somehow all their fault. As much as people deny it there is a shortage of jobs that pay enough to be able to survive here. So your positive point to living in the UK for job opportunities I'm really not sure that's accurate. There are opportunities to be had, but you'll probably be competing against hundreds of other people and for a salary that will probably not be enough to live on anyway. This is the experience I and many friends have had being in London particularly. Getting on the property ladder for first time buyers is almost impossible unless you have rich parents or inheritance. The OH and I can't buy a house here because deposits are so high (we were quoted 40-65k) and you get such little space for your money (London). We could move but there are very few decent jobs in a place that we would like to live. That's not us being fussy - all we're after is a place in a suitable location close enough to somewhere with decent jobs for the two of us with a lifestyle we want. To me that's not too much to ask. It is not just us in this situation, there are many others too. If people can't achieve this in the UK then the next step is to look at a different country where we can achieve this. I can't honestly say that I have done anything "wrong" in my life as such but still life in the UK isn't going as I would have planned for the above reasons, which are beyond my control.
Secondly it's not about sour grapes. With all due respect you are not living in the UK at the moment. I'm not going to say the UK has gone to the dogs, it's not that bad. But it does have it's problems. London for example the cost of living is increasing beyond a lot of peoples' wages making it difficult to afford necessary things. Costs are going up at a greater rate than wages. Commuters are paying up to 5000k per year just to be able to get to work and train fares are set to rise in January, some by as much as 11%. Now I'm pretty sure that wages aren't going up by 11%, making it increasingly difficult to earn a decent living. I'm not talking about being able to afford holidays and luxuries, I'm talking about rent and bills. For me to move abroad it's not about kidding myself into thinking the UK is terrible in order to justify my move. In all fairness I don't think many people do. It's more about running towards a country that will suit your needs better rather than running away from your previous country so to say it's sour grapes is grossly inaccurate.
Last edited by Pom_Chch; Dec 5th 2012 at 8:27 am.
#68
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
Fairly well balanced post. I agree with you that different places suit different people. I wont get into a debate about NZ vs UK because it goes around in circles, although I do disagree with a couple of points.
You can't really say that because someone's life in the UK isn't working out that it's because they went wrong and it's somehow all their fault. As much as people deny it there is a shortage of jobs that pay enough to be able to survive here. Getting on the property ladder for first time buyers is almost impossible unless you have rich parents or inheritance. The OH and I can't buy a house here because deposits are so high (we were quoted 40-65k) and you get such little space for your money (London). We could move but there are very few decent jobs in a place that we would like to live. That's not us being fussy - all we're after is a place in a suitable location close enough to somewhere with decent jobs for the two of us with a lifestyle we want. To me that's not too much to ask. It is not just us in this situation, there are many others too. If people can't achieve this in the UK then the next step is to look at a different country where we can achieve this. I can't honestly say that I have done anything "wrong" in my life as such but still life in the UK isn't going as I would have planned for the above reasons, which are beyond my control.
Secondly it's not about sour grapes. With all due respect you are not living in the UK at the moment. I'm not going to say the UK has gone to the dogs, it's not that bad. But it does have it's problems. London for example the cost of living is increasing beyond a lot of peoples' wages making it difficult to afford necessary things. Costs are going up at a greater rate than wages. Commuters are paying up to 5000k per year just to be able to get to work and train fares are set to rise in January, some by as much as 11%. Now I'm pretty sure that wages aren't going up by 11%, making it increasingly difficult to earn a decent living. I'm not talking about being able to afford holidays and luxuries, I'm talking about rent and bills. For me to move abroad it's not about kidding myself into thinking the UK is terrible in order to justify my move. In all fairness I don't think many people do. It's more about running towards a country that will suit your needs better rather than running away from your previous country so to say it's sour grapes is grossly inaccurate.
You can't really say that because someone's life in the UK isn't working out that it's because they went wrong and it's somehow all their fault. As much as people deny it there is a shortage of jobs that pay enough to be able to survive here. Getting on the property ladder for first time buyers is almost impossible unless you have rich parents or inheritance. The OH and I can't buy a house here because deposits are so high (we were quoted 40-65k) and you get such little space for your money (London). We could move but there are very few decent jobs in a place that we would like to live. That's not us being fussy - all we're after is a place in a suitable location close enough to somewhere with decent jobs for the two of us with a lifestyle we want. To me that's not too much to ask. It is not just us in this situation, there are many others too. If people can't achieve this in the UK then the next step is to look at a different country where we can achieve this. I can't honestly say that I have done anything "wrong" in my life as such but still life in the UK isn't going as I would have planned for the above reasons, which are beyond my control.
Secondly it's not about sour grapes. With all due respect you are not living in the UK at the moment. I'm not going to say the UK has gone to the dogs, it's not that bad. But it does have it's problems. London for example the cost of living is increasing beyond a lot of peoples' wages making it difficult to afford necessary things. Costs are going up at a greater rate than wages. Commuters are paying up to 5000k per year just to be able to get to work and train fares are set to rise in January, some by as much as 11%. Now I'm pretty sure that wages aren't going up by 11%, making it increasingly difficult to earn a decent living. I'm not talking about being able to afford holidays and luxuries, I'm talking about rent and bills. For me to move abroad it's not about kidding myself into thinking the UK is terrible in order to justify my move. In all fairness I don't think many people do. It's more about running towards a country that will suit your needs better rather than running away from your previous country so to say it's sour grapes is grossly inaccurate.
I'm not saying everyone who leaves the uk is a failure or sour grapes person, many of them have very good and legit reasons, or maybe even just feel like a change, nothing wrong with that.
I am referring to the ones who left and then do nothing but talk bad about the UK, of which there is a fair few.
The UK no doubt has it's problems, as does everywhere, but some people (who also haven' been there in years) will tell you it's nothing but dirty, depressing and full of criminals.
They are the ones i'm referring to.
#69
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
You seem to misunderstand.
I'm not saying everyone who leaves the uk is a failure or sour grapes person, many of them have very good and legit reasons, or maybe even just feel like a change, nothing wrong with that.
I am referring to the ones who left and then do nothing but talk bad about the UK, of which there is a fair few.
The UK no doubt has it's problems, as does everywhere, but some people (who also haven' been there in years) will tell you it's nothing but dirty, depressing and full of criminals.
They are the ones i'm referring to.
I'm not saying everyone who leaves the uk is a failure or sour grapes person, many of them have very good and legit reasons, or maybe even just feel like a change, nothing wrong with that.
I am referring to the ones who left and then do nothing but talk bad about the UK, of which there is a fair few.
The UK no doubt has it's problems, as does everywhere, but some people (who also haven' been there in years) will tell you it's nothing but dirty, depressing and full of criminals.
They are the ones i'm referring to.
Yes the UK does have problems and for many people they are hurdles that you cannot jump over, hence the move abroad where this is possible...
#70
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
I'm not going to say the UK has gone to the dogs, it's not that bad. But it does have it's problems. London for example the cost of living is increasing beyond a lot of peoples' wages making it difficult to afford necessary things. Costs are going up at a greater rate than wages. Commuters are paying up to 5000k per year just to be able to get to work and train fares are set to rise in January, some by as much as 11%. Now I'm pretty sure that wages aren't going up by 11%, making it increasingly difficult to earn a decent living. I'm not talking about being able to afford holidays and luxuries, I'm talking about rent and bills. For me to move abroad it's not about kidding myself into thinking the UK is terrible in order to justify my move. In all fairness I don't think many people do. It's more about running towards a country that will suit your needs better rather than running away from your previous country so to say it's sour grapes is grossly inaccurate.
#71
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
But you hear these same concerns from people living in NZ! Living costs have risen hugely while wages have stagnated, the capital city is impossibly expensive to buy in and it's hard to make ends meet unless you can go mortgage free/ low mortgage. I wish expats would be more honest about this with each other; in six years I've met a lot of expats and the ones who seem to last here and feel they've found something worth staying here for are almost always those who came with enough equity for it to be life changing and now own a property they couldn't have dreamed of in the UK. Rarely could those people have bought those properties on their Kiwi incomes alone.
When they were in their 40's we lived in Kent, my dad enjoyed his work and was well paid, they had a great social life, would always be at the pub on a sunday lunchtime with friends, going out for a meal on friday nights, having and going to parties, being down the village fete in summertime etc.
In their late 40's they moved to Lincolnshire as a result of some hare-brained scheme, and didn't fit in, they found it small, insular community, didn't have the social life or their jobs, and family was a 3 hour drive away and didnt see them often. But they started doing foster care, and although they didnt like the job, the money was good, so they stayed there for about 6 years, doing that.
Then they decide to move to NZ, saying it will be a "better life"
They have the same problems here, fitting in not being able to make good friends and have a social life, they just sit in and watch TV, while their friends back in kent are uploading pictures on facebook of parties, trips out with friends etc, my mum will sit and look at these pictures for hours.
But my parents talk bad about the uk all the time, but really... they are talking bad about lincolnshire, a result of their poor decision making.
They could go back to the uk, back to kent and fit straight back in, in fact their friends and family always suggest this!
But my parents say "you can never go back" and sit in front of the tv every night, wasting the years.
I think for them, going back would be like the ultimate admission of defeat, especially as they peddled this vision of such a wonderful and fantastic life that was waiting for them, in the land of the long white cloud.
I know im sounding harsh, but i'm honest and realistic, it just annoys me when people don't accept they made mistakes, and prefer to nonsensically blame a country for their problems.
Last edited by Infern0; Dec 5th 2012 at 9:06 am.
#72
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
For what it's worth;
I've got no major beef with living here in London, in fact I enjoy it daily, but that isn't reason enough to make me stay over heading in to a new adventure. If I'm honest, I'm living a fairly uneventful, but stable life.
There is no doubting that there is more to do in London than there is in any town or city in NZ - but to be honest in my 7 years living in London I've been to the theatre 4 or 5 times, have been to a museum on about the same number of occasions. I rarely actually DO anything that London has to offer, I tend to frequent the same restaurants (though I will try a recommendation) and I have a few pubs I go to in various parts of North and West London.
Other than that I go to work, play sport, watch sport (often paying through the nose for it), cycle and take my daughter to the park - all of which I can do in most, if not all western societies.
Frankly, if the move to NZ doesn't work out for any reason coming back to London is failure plan A, but let's see what NZ holds for us first, eh?
I've got no major beef with living here in London, in fact I enjoy it daily, but that isn't reason enough to make me stay over heading in to a new adventure. If I'm honest, I'm living a fairly uneventful, but stable life.
There is no doubting that there is more to do in London than there is in any town or city in NZ - but to be honest in my 7 years living in London I've been to the theatre 4 or 5 times, have been to a museum on about the same number of occasions. I rarely actually DO anything that London has to offer, I tend to frequent the same restaurants (though I will try a recommendation) and I have a few pubs I go to in various parts of North and West London.
Other than that I go to work, play sport, watch sport (often paying through the nose for it), cycle and take my daughter to the park - all of which I can do in most, if not all western societies.
Frankly, if the move to NZ doesn't work out for any reason coming back to London is failure plan A, but let's see what NZ holds for us first, eh?
#73
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
But you hear these same concerns from people living in NZ! Living costs have risen hugely while wages have stagnated, the capital city is impossibly expensive to buy in and it's hard to make ends meet unless you can go mortgage free/ low mortgage. I wish expats would be more honest about this with each other; in six years I've met a lot of expats and the ones who seem to last here and feel they've found something worth staying here for are almost always those who came with enough equity for it to be life changing and now own a property they couldn't have dreamed of in the UK. Rarely could those people have bought those properties on their Kiwi incomes alone.
#74
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
That's interesting because from speaking to family/friends in Christchurch they seem to say the opposite. They can afford a lot more for a lot less on the salaries they have compared to the UK. This was achieved by no huge amount of savings and is done on salaries. This is good news to me as it seems I will be able to afford the same as them, which is an awful lot more than in the UK. Lucky I'm headed to Christchurch and not Welly!
#75
Just Joined
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 23
Re: NZ vs UK - not all it's cracked up to be. Is it just me?
It's certainly not Cheese, bread or milk you can buy more of, i'll tell you that much
Or a beer
Or a beer