BEVS

I rather thought that paddy234.

This is the group that opposed proposed agreements for peace more than once. Is anti-gay, anti-abortion and who also committed terrorist attacks killing civilians.

They have strong links with the UDA who are still 'executing' today.

They are paramilitary.

What desperate type of MP gets into bed with that ?
Oh wait. I know of one.

paddy234

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/nor...-uk-extremists

Northern Ireland Loyalist Paramilitaries (U.K., extremists)
Last updated November 01, 2005

More on:
Terrorism and Counterterrorism
United Kingdom
This publication is now archived.

Who are Northern Ireland’s “loyalists”?

Loyalists want Northern Ireland to remain part of the United Kingdom , and many are willing to support the use of violence to keep the Protestant-majority province, also known as Ulster , under British rule. They are the adversaries of the Irish Republican Army, and others who seek a united Ireland , in the violent decades-long struggle that the Irish call “the Troubles.” Young Protestant men from Ulster ’s most downtrodden neighborhoods make up the core membership of loyalist paramilitary groups, which are effectively pro-state terrorist organizations.

How many loyalist paramilitary groups are there?

Historically, there were two main organizations: the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), founded in 1966 (and named for an early twentieth- century organization with the same mission), and the larger Ulster Defence Association (UDA), a network of vigilante groups founded in 1971. UDA members also use the name Ulster Freedom Fighters. The UVF and the UDA cooperated closely through the Combined Loyalist Military Command for much of the 1990s, but this association dissolved amid a violent feud in 2001.

Three hard-line offshoots have emerged from these groups in recent years: the Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF), in 1996, and the Red Hand Defenders and the Orange Volunteers, in 1998. Authorities believe the last two may simply be cover names used by UDA and LVF members conducting attacks.

In December 2001, the State Department listed four of these Protestant paramilitary organizations as terrorist groups, all except the Ulster Volunteer Force.

What is the conflict in Northern Ireland about?

Following a 1916 uprising and years of guerrilla war led by the legendary Irish nationalist Michael Collins, the British government decided in 1920 to divide Ireland, which it had ruled as a colony for centuries. An independent state, the Republicof Ireland, was created in the island’s predominantly Catholic south, and the six Ulster counties in the north, with a Protestant majority, remained part of the United Kingdom. The conflict is both political and religious: Many Catholic “republicans” in Ulster have complained of being treated as second-class citizens, and they seek to unite Northern Ireland with the Republic of Ireland, but most Protestants wantNorthern Irelandto remain part of theUnited Kingdom. Almost 3,500 people on both sides have died since the Troubles began in 1969.

What attacks have the loyalist paramilitary groups carried out?

Despite accounting for almost thirty percent of the deaths in the Northern Ireland conflict, loyalists’ attacks have generally drawn far less media and international attention than those perpetrated by the IRA. Major loyalist attacks include:

The UVF’s 1966 shooting of four Catholics, one fatally, outside a Belfast pub. This attack was the first major act of sectarian violence since Ireland was divided, and it spurred Catholic activism, which soon turned violent.
The UVF’s 1969 bombing of a power station near Belfast. Initially attributed to the IRA, this attack also helped trigger the Troubles.
The UVF’s 1971 bombing of a Belfastpub, which killed fifteen people.
A pair of UVF bombings in Dublin and Monaghan, both in the Republic of Ireland, on May 17, 1974, that killed thirty-three civilians, making this day the deadliest of the conflict.
The UDA’s October 1993 machine-gun attack on a bar in the Northern Ireland town of Greysteel, which killed eight civilians.
The LVF killing of Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams’ nephew in January 1998.
A fierce campaign of intimidation and abuse of Catholic schoolgirls inBelfast between June and October 2001.
The murder of fourBelfast residents in the summer of 2005 (marching season). The Independent Monitoring Commission blamed the UVF for the deaths in a special report in September and the group’s ceasefire was declared broken later that month.
Religious violence, harassment, and intimidation typically flare up during the summer “marching season,” when hard-line Protestants don bowlers and orange sashes and parade through Catholic neighborhoods to celebrate centuries-old battlefield victories. Many Catholics see these parades as provocations.

Have the loyalist groups targeted civilians?

Yes—and more frequently than the IRA. Between 1968 and 1998, loyalist paramilitaries killed an estimated 864 civilians (most of them Catholic), compared with an estimated 728 civilians (most of them Protestant) killed by the IRA. Experts say loyalist groups have often acted out of religious hatred, while the IRA has more often targeted British security officers—killing more than 1,000 of them—in an effort to further its political goal of ejecting the British from Northern Ireland .

How big are the loyalist paramilitary groups?

At its peak in the 1970s, the UDA had some 40,000 members, but the UVF and the UDA today are thought to be only several hundred strong. The LVF, the Red Hand Defenders, and the Orange Volunteers count only dozens of members each, possibly with a great deal of overlap.

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Clappy

I didn't register specially for the recent election, I haven't voted in the other UK elections since I moved to this country, I am only on the register now because I registered for the Brexit vote which will affect my passport.

Other than that, I do think that what they get up to in the UK is none of my business now. I have thought the same ever since I moved here.

Kotare

So instead of using the DUP vote they should let a Marxist, pro terrorist, economic illiterate into power?

paddy234

Pro terrorist? The only parties that supported terrorism in Ireland were the Tories and their imperialist yuppies. Republicanism liberated most of Ireland, smashed the sectarian oppressive state in the north. Would it be better Ireland still be oppressed? At least the labour party understood this and wouldn't simply send innocent men to die to hold to what is left of a dead Empire. The British people will hopefully get a taste to see what people in the north of Ireland have experienced for decades. This will hopefully kill off the Tories and their sectarian partners

Robbie2010

So, you're OK with the DUP and their terrorist background? Their "friends" killed more than the IRA ... and they're still at it!

Kotare

I served in NI during 'the troubles' and this this is the garbage that was spouted then as the IRA killed a few more children... The day NI votes to become part of Eire the rest of the UK will let them go with relief (same attitude to Gibraltar and the Falklands).

Back to Corbyn - he supports any terrorist (sorry 'freedom fighter') grouping that is available.

No further comment.

paddy234

It was only garbage to you as you would have been seen as the foreigner who refuses to understand the other sides point of view. Fair enough but understand this, The people called on the IRA to defend their communities when loyalists were burning thousands of Catholics out of their homes with the aid of the corrupt police force, the RUC and B Specials, an institution so corrupt they had to be disbanded? Did you never learn that in history. The IRA were engaged in a war in 1919-1921. They won that war for most of the country. The gerrymandering of the north against Ireland's wishes to suit a minority in the north east is hardly justifiable. Suppose a large section of fundamentalist Muslims descend upon an English county and are the majority there, would it be justifiable for them to use their Democratic right to create a independent muslim state that oppressed anyone with different views?

The war in Ireland was a war to remove British oppression, dress it up any way you like but reading extensive history in Ireland I know that for Britain to invade and sustain a presence in Ireland it HAD to make constant use of terror, oppressive laws and outright genocide, they lost their humanity holding it which should at least hint that it wasn't working. Once the IRA defeated the British in the 26 counties there was peace for the first time in many centuries there. Then in 1998 forced the dismantling of the oppressive state in the north and for the most part there is peace so the way I see it Republicans were the only ones to bring peace to Ireland. Not all actions in war are justified including the carpet bombing of German cities at night which killed thousands of civilians at a time. This was done to minimize the risk to RAF pilots but by attacking at night you increase the risk of killing innocent, men, women and children in their beds. The Germans don't whinge about that because they were the invader but I've never seen so many people whose nation invade and oppress a people for centuries killing millions and then whinge when they fight back. The IRA killed mostly British security forces and most of its attacks were aimed at such forces, they also engaged in an economic bombing campaign in which warnings were mostly given and for their attacks that purposely killed civilians, those attacks were immoral and can NEVER be justified. British forces killed more civilians than IRA combatants so wouldn't you say they were unsuccessful at fighting any war against the IRA other than swelling it's ranks. The IRA in 1969 had few volunteers, after internment and the number of civilians British soldiers were killing they had thousands years later. Using violence in Ireland never worked as whatever was used against the people they endured and gave much more back. Surely it's better now than ever and that's because the ultra unionists extremists and their Tory supported institutions were defeated in the North and a new state was formed. The DUP still represent that bitterness however and they are still bitter that things aren't how they used to be where an uneducated protestant could walk in to a well payed job while a Catholic even with a degree wouldn't stand a chance. Their only culture is to antagonize Nationalists every summer where they force and parade themselves through areas they aren't wanted causing hostility which excites them, they build bonfires so large in their areas that every year a few houses are destroyed by the blaze, stacked on these bonfires are effigies of the Catholic statues, republican political members etc. It was a DUP politician relatively recently that said hurricane Katrina was Gods punishment for a gay parade, in the North of Ireland people still vote in a tribal way and you could get a donkey, wrap it up in a union jack and they would still vote for it as to them they don't care about ANY principals of the party and how they behave other than they stand for the unionism. Thats the type of the DUP and the 38% of people who voted for them. They are an insult to Christianity and intellectualism. Britain will be begging Ireland to take the DUP back before long. The Irish people can handle the DUP and their fundamentalist ideologies as they could keep them in check but i doubt Britain could. Understand this is the same unionist mentality that in fear Of Britain leaving the North of Ireland claimed they would kill British forces and rebel if they attempted to betray them with home rule which Ireland wanted

BEVS

You will still be entitled to hold a UK passport , exit or no exit.
There may be a change to border controls or visa waiver policies.

Yes. I can understand that if you no longer intend to live in the UK. FWIW in that case I'd forget about the UK passport too. After all you have your NZ passport.

I'm still of a mind that me and him may make a UK or Europe return so that is why I feel I should be a part of the democratic process.

MrsFychan

DUP have denied there is a agreement as yet so Tories jumped the gun,

BEVS

There will be no formal coalition thank goodness. Too much of an outcry from within the Con party and from the electorate.
However that pair of blighters are in talks to reach an 'agreement' with each other. Bad. Bad Bad. One a weakling. The other barking.
The contents of any such agreement should be made public to the electorate IMO.

chocolate cake

I'll refrain from commenting on the DUP, but suffice to say Sinn Fein are hardly saints re: links to republican terrorism.

However while it's clear it was poor election for the Tories, it's not as if Corbyn actually won the election and he's much less of mandate to be cobbling together a minority government with more than 60 less seats.