link_cat

Hi everyone,

I'm posting here because I have a big decision to make....

I have two job offers, one in the USA and one in Norway. As near as I can figure, they are roughly equivalent. The biggest trade-offs seem to be that one in the USA will allow us to buy a relatively bigger house; the one in Norway comes with more holiday (vacation).

We have family in the UK, Canada, and USA. But the US job offer isn't very close to our American or Canadian relations. No closer, really, than Norway is to come back to the UK.

We have two kids (ages 5 & 2) and they are the biggest reason we are seriously considering the Norway job. Does anyone have any advice or input?

David Armstrong

Hmm... I see your dilemma. I think the only thing you can do is take a look here http://www.norway.no/oss/ have a good poke around and see what the benefits are for living in Norway as a family. Your kids are 5 & 2 so they will adapt really easily to any new environment.

I lived in NYC for many years with my wife but as soon as we decided it was time for a family we chose Scandinavia (She is Swedish) the benefits for us as a family far out weighed anything the states could offer us. Schools, medical, dental, Vacation time, quality of life. As for Norway, they share many basic characteristics to us here in Sweden just check the details

As for the benefit of a "bigger house" if you moved to the States, I think you'll find once you start looking around to the outskirts of the Norwegian towns/cities you'll find the prices go down and size goes up.

http://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/US/NO

If I had to make a choice, it would be Norway.

link_cat

We're now worried about being able to afford housing in Norway. From internet sites it looks like we would have to pay 2 - 2.5 mil NOK for a house within a reasonable commuting distance.

Are there cheaper houses available by word of mouth / local ads? Or will we find the same thing once we go there?

If anyone can help, it would be much appreciated.

David Armstrong

For sure you'll get more for your "House money" in the states, no question about that. As for the Norwegian housing market I have no experience in it, but keep searching the web. Good luck

bossmonkey

I'd go for Norway no doubt, but then it's where I'm from and I'm desperate to move back myself (from the UK) ;-)

Can I ask where in Norway the job is? And do you have to buy, could you not rent for the first year? Also does it have to be a house, or could you rent an apartment at least to start off with? Flats there are not the same as flats in the UK, the standard is much higher IME and a lot of families live in flats.

Are you using www.finn.no

link_cat

The job is in Tranby.

A flat could be okay. We have to weigh the cost of flats (plus building maintenance & associated fees) versus houses, cost to commute, etc.

We may rent short term, if we go to Norway. I don't like renting, just because it is money thrown away. Also, I don't want to make my daughter change schools just as she is making friends in our new location.

So much to think about...

Bob

Where in the US?

50 different states, 50 completely different cost of livings, quality of schools, cost of housing etc.

If it's Texas, you could get a massive house and spend a fortune cooling it down in the summer. If it's in Boston, you might not be able to find an affordable house and spend a fortune heating it in winter, etc, etc.

Also you've got to figure that you'll come with no US credit history and buying in this market would be mental, when it is often much cheaper to rent a home in many markets, plus which school you can go to is determined by which street you live on, so you really want to get the house right and it is so much more expensive to sell as house here than compared to the UK, not to mention property taxes can be massive, maybe a few hundred bucks up in Maine, but maybe $10-15K a year in NJ.

What's the medical insurance cover? That'll be the maker of breaker I'd think, how much would you have to pay per month for it to cover the family, what's the co-pay, deductibles etc.

What's the visa? If it's a H1B, the spouse won't be able to work, so if that's a consideration on the finances, worth looking into what they plan. Company transfer if you've worked for the place for over a year would get L1, and the spouse on L2 could apply for a EAD, which would allow work.

link_cat

Rural Minnesota. We've looked at properties on-line. I've checked property taxes, income taxes, medical insurance, estimated out-of-pocket expenses.

Minnesota has open enrollment for schools, but the schools are fairly centralised, anyway because the population is low density.

I am a dual US - British citizen, and so are our children. Only my husband requires a visa, and that will be a family visa. I think we can get credit, but I have to admit that I'm not 100% certain. We're making a trip across next week & that's one of the things I need to investigate.

It will be easier for my husband to work in the US than Norway, as he isn't very good at learning languages.

christmasoompa

It'll take him 8-10 months to get that visa though, is the potential employer in the US prepared to wait that long for you, or would you go over ahead of him?

Best of luck wherever you choose.

Bob

You'll need the last few years of IRS tax returns then, shouldn't be a problem as you should have been filing to the IRS anyway, even if you didn't have tax owed, as well as FBAR requirements for having accounts/assets over $10K out of the US.

The OH probably wouldn't have issues with language barrier in Norway, obviously good to learn the local language, but many speak if not most, very good English. I've had friends move to Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland, all but one of them were shit at languages and have managed to do really well.

Hovik

As a Norwegian currently living in the US, I have some input.

1. Where in Norway is the job offer ? ( Housing prices vary widely, and some areas have larger foreign work forces than other )
2. If you make $100k in Norway, expect to pay ~35% in taxes. At first glance, income taxes in Norway may look high, but there's some nice deductibles + you only pay taxes for 10.5 months of the year
3. Language barrier will not be a problem for your husband. Most work places have English as the main work language. I spent 4 years speaking nothing but English in my first job in Norway.
4. Child care costs are VERY low in Norway. They're government regulated, to max ~2800NOK/month/kid. Expect to pay 3-4x as much in the US.
5. Even though schools are free in Norway, a private international school will cost ~2200NOK/month/kid ( Not 100% sure, but it's in that ballpark )
6. Health care costs in Norway are limited to ~2000NOK/year/person, and kids under 18 are always free. Dental car is not subsidized and will cost you. (Again, kids are free )

The US is great if you belong to the upper middle class+, but I pity most of the working class. Health care, child care, educational and retirement expenses are staggering in the US, unless you're among the fortunate.

While we enjoy our time in the US, we realize the kids will be better off in Norway in the long term.

link_cat

Thanks for the help, everyone.

We were in the US last week, and are in Norway this week.

Medical insurance cover is quite good with my US job offer. My husband still worries about it, and I can't say that I blame him. He also worries about the difference in working hours. Theoretically, they are similar, but philosophically, perhaps not so close.

We don't plan to use private schools. Children learn languages quickly. I think it's important that they live near where they go to school, and make friends nearby. Luckily, the schools seem to be good in both of our possible locations, so that isn't too much of a factor.

I have found out that in Norway, people receive 'vacation' pay in June. How does that work, if you haven't worked in Norway before? Do you simply go without any pay?

@Hovik: do you have children? How old are they? Is your judgement based mainly upon educational opportunities?

Beccarose

Hi link-cat,

I just wanted to chime in and say I would definitely pick Norway. You mentioned in your first post that the biggest trade offs seem to be US- bigger house, Norway- more vacation time. Going by those two thoughts alone it would be Norway by a long shot because vacation time and time spent with family far outweighs any size house you could get.
But that is obviously not the only factor, and even bring into the equation that you get good health care coverage and any other bonuses the US job might offer I would still say Norway.

I'm from the US and still in the US and would rather not be for a huge array of reasons, so my opinion is a bit biased but I am certain of the fact that my family would be much better off in Sweden (dh is Swedish). I am sure our kids would be better off there as well. Values in and of itself is a good enough reason all on it's own. I don't know a ton about Norway but I do know Norway and Sweden are very similar in so very many ways.

Just my two cents- where in the US are you considering? That would be a very big thing to think about too. Some areas I can see someone moving to more so than other areas.

link_cat

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your help. In the end, I decided to take the job in Norway and turn down the one in the USA.

We loved our visit to Norway, and are excited about the opportunity to try living there. I imagine that the kids will be fluent in Norwegian when we are still struggling to figure our what we're buying in the supermarket...

Anyway, I will have some temporary housing. I'm thinking that I will go across, get myself established and find a place for us to live & my other half will follow with the kids. I would like to rent a van for the first trip across to take basic living stuff, work clothes and a few things that I don't want a removals company to take.

Are there any share schemes, or rental companies that won't charge silly amounts to collect a van in the UK and leave it in Norway? Should I start another thread?

Thanks!

OurAmazingNorway

Hi Link_cat . . . congratulations on your choice. I have a free magazing Our Amazing Norway it is for expats living in Norway. Let me know if you want me to send you a copy once you get to Norway you will find it quite useful as you adjust. You can also find me on FB or check out my website ouramazingnorway.com you can upload the app for free if you want. Best of luck to you and your family in Norway I know you are going to love it!