Kix

It seems to me the only party guilty of espionage is the US government. For a country that purports to be the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" they don't seem to mind running over peoples rights in the name of "National Security".

Nor does UK - in fact does any country?

Maybe they should change their national anthem?

Brains1983

I don't get the big deal with this. I'm not trying to make a bomb, I'm only looking a boobies when the wife is on the rag, and my internet connection through my unamed VPN is too shit for poker. The occassional scan? Bnot a huge issue if it stops a bad person doing a bad thing.

Kix

I love you beautiful prose "when the wife is on the rag".

Do I see it as a problem, no, not if it's only used for terrorism, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Libya/Iraq/Syria come to mind, why should States listen in to your thoughts? (Add all GCC to that list). You might like to say that it protects you, but who does it protect you from?

I reckon it protects the State, that may very well have ulterior motives for their surveillance.

I'm sure the UAE read this, know our real names, know our IPs, phone numbers everything, does that make me feel less safe?

No it doesn't, what does concern me somewhat is a State using their thoughts on what is good and bad to imprison people that they deem to agree with it.

That my friend, is the problem.

(I'm sure they're not in the slightest interested on your booby fixation, maybe you have a "mother" issue).

shiva

And that is exactly how rights get eroded and you end up living in a totalitarian state.

It's not a matter of if but when a government comes to power that then decides to use the system to remove any political opposition.

To all those who say they don't see a problem because they are doing nothing wrong, it is an inevitability that at some point a government will take control and decide that your opposing view is a cause of concern. By then it will be too late to complain or stop it. It may not be you or your children but given human and political nature it will happen.

Millhouse

will they still keep 'the hun' website going?

scrubbedexpat141

I reckon the Yank should get hold of his mrs and threaten to behead her if he doesn't surrender himself.

It ALWAYS works in the movies.

Dick Dasterdly

I can't get my head around all this shock, horror syndrome.

Surely it's been a fair assumption for long enough that all the major powers at the very least and many more besides are up to this sort of thing.

Which brings me to my next point.
To my way of thinking Snowden is making himself look more than a tad Hypocritical, by blowing the whistle on Uncle Sam then trotting off to China and Russia looking for sympathy, when he must surely be aware that they are also up to their necks in it, playing the same game.

Personally, I don't give a toss, it is the sort of World we now live in and we might just as well all get on with it, because it's definitely not going to change for the better whatever degree of public furore may result.

Bearing this in mind of course, those who believe they have cause for concern should maybe consider communicating with a little more diligence in future, though I can't imagine the powers that be, dropping you in the mire simply for mailing your best pal that you're shagging the neighbours wife.

Theseus

I've said it before and i'll say it again...

The erosion of human rights or the right to freedom does not happen overnight, it happens slowly by increments until you wake up one day and realise you're living in "1984"

I hate to invoke Godwins Law (although wiki says its ok if you're discussing totalitarianism)...but anyway Germany didnt just decide on one day in January that they though Jews were terrible and they should all be killed. It was a not very subtle, slow process to get to the point of genocide.

Government sneak this shit up on you, they manipulate people.

Boomhauer

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety..

B. Franklin

The Dean

Belinda Franklin said that??? Blimey, I remember her from school - her intellect has obviously gone up a notch since then.........

Dumbo

Bahtatboy

Tosh. We're talking about democratic, western states here. And yes, its possible to argue that there's no such thing as democracy, that our rights are being eroded, that government is heavy-handed--but, by and large, the west still allows citizens to openly and covertly criticise and be abusive towards its leaders, in full view of everyone or whispered in a dark corner.

shiva

as I said, for now it does.

It will happen, the only question is when.

Even a cursory glance at Western democracy over the last 30 years shows that this freedom has been eroded to an alarming degree already and that a huge portion of implemented policy has been in direct opposition to the public will.

as I said its in human nature and it will happen i don't mean tomorrow but the initial signs are all there, policies are already in place and key opponents in various countries to various issues have already been offed in less than convincing ways.

I'm not talking about an overnight step into totalitarianism but we have already taken a lot of baby steps and each incremental change takes us closer to that fate, as long as they remain incremental steps the people by and large either dont notice, dont care or are unaware of where it will lead.

at what point to the people say enough? judging by history usually right after its too late.

Bahtatboy

Just coz Ben (or Belinda) said it doesn't make it true or right.

"Essential Liberty" requires definition in context, as does "Temporary Safety".

In what context did Ben use it?

Boomhauer

Well that could be said for most any 'wise' proclamation, could it not?

I don't know whether context even matter for that comment, because it is timeless . To me it would apply to people who are ok with curtailing some basic freedoms (like government snooping on everyone) just to defend against the terrorit bogeman.