Where is everybody?

Old Sep 11th 2019, 9:13 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Of course most of it is, but that kind of thinking and approach makes 'you' complicit. None of us are perfect but a client who's willing to spend money on worker welfare deserves better than just the usual cynicism I think.
Its the contractor spending the money and client imposing and penalising . They even wanted us to change the name camp to village . How quaint and dainty . Fortunately for us we run some of the best facilities in the UAE but we know what the men really want which are the basics done very well and with consistency.

Calling the camp a village only makes Henrietta who worked on the 2012 Olympic Delivery team feel better about taking her grubby salary

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Old Sep 11th 2019, 10:27 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by co durham boy View Post
Its the contractor spending the money and client imposing and penalising . They even wanted us to change the name camp to village . How quaint and dainty . Fortunately for us we run some of the best facilities in the UAE but we know what the men really want which are the basics done very well and with consistency.

Calling the camp a village only makes Henrietta who worked on the 2012 Olympic Delivery team feel better about taking her grubby salary
There are lots of onerous things in contracts that contractors cope with. Treating people like humans is not hard. If your lot can do it and do it well on the basis of providing what the men want (not what some idiot like me thinks they want) then all can, surely.
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Old Sep 11th 2019, 11:20 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by co durham boy View Post
Its the contractor spending the money and client imposing and penalising . They even wanted us to change the name camp to village . How quaint and dainty . Fortunately for us we run some of the best facilities in the UAE but we know what the men really want which are the basics done very well and with consistency.

Calling the camp a village only makes Henrietta who worked on the 2012 Olympic Delivery team feel better about taking her grubby salary
so what's the name of your village?

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Old Sep 11th 2019, 12:28 pm
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
so what's the name of your village?
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 4:10 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Of course most of it is, but that kind of thinking and approach makes 'you' complicit. None of us are perfect but a client who's willing to spend money on worker welfare deserves better than just the usual cynicism I think.
I don't really have a kind of thinking about this - except if the client is willing to pay for a certain level of welfare (over and above the norm) it will be provided. The usual case is that a project is priced and won, then the client appoints some one to run the site who comes with all these new arbitrary standards and rules which they generate a huge drama/cost/paperwork enforcing for mostly bogus safety stats.

That's not cynicism that's the reality, and I worked in the ME for a company with welfare standards well above the norms or legal requirements.
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 4:48 am
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Thumbs up Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by weasel decentral View Post
I don't really have a kind of thinking about this - except if the client is willing to pay for a certain level of welfare (over and above the norm) it will be provided. The usual case is that a project is priced and won, then the client appoints some one to run the site who comes with all these new arbitrary standards and rules which they generate a huge drama/cost/paperwork enforcing for mostly bogus safety stats.

That's not cynicism that's the reality, and I worked in the ME for a company with welfare standards well above the norms or legal requirements.
Exactly this
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 5:15 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by weasel decentral View Post
I don't really have a kind of thinking about this - except if the client is willing to pay for a certain level of welfare (over and above the norm) it will be provided. The usual case is that a project is priced and won, then the client appoints some one to run the site who comes with all these new arbitrary standards and rules which they generate a huge drama/cost/paperwork enforcing for mostly bogus safety stats.

That's not cynicism that's the reality, and I worked in the ME for a company with welfare standards well above the norms or legal requirements.
Spot on, if the client's willing to pay, it's provided. That's all there is to it.

I think there's more value to welfare and safety than seeing it as drama/cost/paperwork though.
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 5:33 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Spot on, if the client's willing to pay, it's provided. That's all there is to it.

I think there's more value to welfare and safety than seeing it as drama/cost/paperwork though.
Of course there is always . The issue on this project that it's over and above on whats required , doesn't have the specific desired effect as intended and usually the cost outweighs and measurable benefit to the workforce . If the clients wants to AC the corridors at their cost then i'm fine with that . If he doesnt want to pay and we move down the welfare league table im also fine with that .

People need to always raise the bar with standards but this just mirrors other high spec projects iv been involved in over the years . It's no good us having a 'drop in library' in the village when the sub contractor cant pay his workforce on time.
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 6:14 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by co durham boy View Post
Of course there is always . The issue on this project that it's over and above on whats required , doesn't have the specific desired effect as intended and usually the cost outweighs and measurable benefit to the workforce . If the clients wants to AC the corridors at their cost then i'm fine with that . If he doesnt want to pay and we move down the welfare league table im also fine with that .

People need to always raise the bar with standards but this just mirrors other high spec projects iv been involved in over the years . It's no good us having a 'drop in library' in the village when the sub contractor cant pay his workforce on time.
Amen to that
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 6:36 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by co durham boy View Post
Of course there is always . The issue on this project that it's over and above on whats required , doesn't have the specific desired effect as intended and usually the cost outweighs and measurable benefit to the workforce . If the clients wants to AC the corridors at their cost then i'm fine with that . If he doesnt want to pay and we move down the welfare league table im also fine with that .

People need to always raise the bar with standards but this just mirrors other high spec projects iv been involved in over the years . It's no good us having a 'drop in library' in the village when the sub contractor cant pay his workforce on time.
Dont stock your library with law books; the last thing you want to do is your villagers reading up on the law.
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 7:32 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Genuinely fascinating insights but isn't worker's welfare all a bit too.... well, lefty?
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 7:36 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Yes and no to the above..... of our Contractors on site we have: average ones (for the region) whose welfare can be questionable and their H&S needs constant attention. These are the guys who benefit from strict regulations. Another of our Contractors really looks after their staff (nice digs, decent wages, AC'd equipment and transport, annual bonus' when they go home etc) and the workers love them for it (loyalty -they've all been with them for years, attitude etc) and the H&S standards are high. They are generally above and beyond everyone else. Strict (possibly pointless requirements just annoy them). What always happens though is that the Contractor who does put the added effort in get ridden harder than the average ones as the H&S w#nkers know that its an easy win as they will do everything thats asked where as the average ones will drag their heels and generally fail to impliment the changes required and so the H&S w#nkers end up overlooking things as they know its pointless asking for them. It's human nature.
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Old Sep 12th 2019, 7:53 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post


Dont stock your library with law books; the last thing you want to do is your villagers reading up on the law.
It's mostly Razzle and Fiesta
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Old Sep 13th 2019, 11:50 am
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by jam25mack View Post
Yes and no to the above..... of our Contractors on site we have: average ones (for the region) whose welfare can be questionable and their H&S needs constant attention. These are the guys who benefit from strict regulations. Another of our Contractors really looks after their staff (nice digs, decent wages, AC'd equipment and transport, annual bonus' when they go home etc) and the workers love them for it (loyalty -they've all been with them for years, attitude etc) and the H&S standards are high. They are generally above and beyond everyone else. Strict (possibly pointless requirements just annoy them). What always happens though is that the Contractor who does put the added effort in get ridden harder than the average ones as the H&S w#nkers know that its an easy win as they will do everything thats asked where as the average ones will drag their heels and generally fail to impliment the changes required and so the H&S w#nkers end up overlooking things as they know its pointless asking for them. It's human nature.
The very odd thing or more correctly one of the very odd things I've noticed in the middle east is that the client employs a D&B contractor and an "Engineer". The "Engineers" role appears to be to change the design of the designer thus doubling the expense of the design by producing in built duplication. Similarly, The Contractor employs HSE bods to avoid violations and the "Engineer" employs HSE bods to photograph violations not avoided by the other HSE bods.
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Old Sep 13th 2019, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: Where is everybody?

Originally Posted by co durham boy View Post
It's mostly Razzle and Fiesta
Don't forget the antique analog porn collection when you leave, toss a match to the law books they are not worth the access baggage
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