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-   -   Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/sand-pit-116/vettel-v-alonso-who-deserves-title-777933/)

Scamp Nov 20th 2012 4:34 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Manchester_QS (Post 10391765)
Vettel is a fantastic driver in my opinion, but if he stays with Red Bull for the majority of his career then nobody will know just how good he is!

I don't want him to move to Ferrari but another top team would be good and see how he fares then! Kimi and Vettel at Lotus would be fun.

Kimi and Vettell at Red Bull would be even better.

Two quickest cars, no favourite and proper racers.

The_Citizen Nov 20th 2012 4:40 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391768)
Kimi and Vettell at Red Bull would be even better.

Two quickest cars, no favourite and proper racers.

Actually that would be better!!!!

On a different note has anybody been to the Bahrain F1 Grand Prix before?

Went to Silverstone and Yas this year and thought I would try another 'local' one for next year. Tickets and flights look really cheap but it doesn't seem the safest place to be!

Kix Nov 20th 2012 5:27 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 
Alonso deserves the win more than Vettel, he's been struggling with a far less competitive car over the last year, Vettel has had the quickest and (barring a dodgy alternator), more reliable car in 2012.

Scamp Nov 20th 2012 5:55 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Kix (Post 10391814)
Alonso deserves the win more than Vettel, he's been struggling with a far less competitive car over the last year, Vettel has had the quickest and (barring a dodgy alternator), more reliable car in 2012.

I don't understand why that means he deserves it?

Man Utd didn't have as good a team as Man City last year but because it was so close at the end they deserved the title....eh?

norsk Nov 20th 2012 5:57 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391833)
I don't understand why that means he deserves it?

Man Utd didn't have as good a team as Man City last year but because it was so close at the end they deserved the title....eh?

Vettel is German hence he should not win! :p

Scamp Nov 20th 2012 6:01 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by norsk (Post 10391835)
Vettel is German hence he should not win! :p

Don't get me wrong, the Germans are still German. I'll also happily admit that Alonso is a ****ing prize bellend, leader of the dickheads, master of all things ****wittery and emperor of ****.... but because his car isn't as good doesn't mean he should win.

Rory McIlroy is the best golfer in the world but he isn't going to win in Dubai this weekend.

norsk Nov 20th 2012 6:18 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391841)
Don't get me wrong, the Germans are still German. I'll also happily admit that Alonso is a ****ing prize bellend, leader of the dickheads, master of all things ****wittery and emperor of ****.... but because his car isn't as good doesn't mean he should win.

Rory McIlroy is the best golfer in the world but he isn't going to win in Dubai this weekend.

Alonso shouldn't win because his car is shit compared to Vettel's, he should win as he is a better driver than Vettel! Put them in the same car and Vettel would be crying on a daily basis...

It's the same story as Button (to a certain extent), he was awesome in the Brawn when it was by far the best car on the grid, but once he came to McLaren he has been in Lewis' shadows (most of the time)...

Scamp Nov 20th 2012 6:28 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by norsk (Post 10391859)
Alonso shouldn't win because his car is shit compared to Vettel's, he should win as he is a better driver than Vettel! Put them in the same car and Vettel would be crying on a daily basis...

It's the same story as Button (to a certain extent), he was awesome in the Brawn when it was by far the best car on the grid, but once he came to McLaren he has been in Lewis' shadows (most of the time)...

I just don't see that being the best driver makes you the deserving champion. They do have influence in the car and its setup etc.

Van Persie might score 100 goals this season but if the rest of the team aren't up to scratch, they won't win the league.

norsk Nov 20th 2012 6:33 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391870)
I just don't see that being the best driver makes you the deserving champion. They do have influence in the car and its setup etc.

Van Persie might score 100 goals this season but if the rest of the team aren't up to scratch, they won't win the league.

Red Bull's success over the last few years is the product of Adrian Newey's genius engineering talent. The driver (in this case Vettel) has impact by giving feedback on setup and handling, but that's about it.

F1 cannot be compared to football! Even remotely..

Kix Nov 20th 2012 6:41 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391833)
I don't understand why that means he deserves it?

Man Utd didn't have as good a team as Man City last year but because it was so close at the end they deserved the title....eh?

Not a good analogy there, the teams are made up of 20 odd players in a season, it's also down to the manager and, although I hate to say it, the whinging scotsman is a far better manager than the italian.

Vettel comes across as such a decent guy, don't know anyone who has a bad thing to say about him, but, as was said, he has had by far the best car of the season and the fact that Alonso is still in with a shout (albeit a slight one at that), shows just how good he is as a driver, and it is after all, the Driver's Championship, Red Bull have already won the Constructors one, ran away with it really.

Vettel will win it, but Alonso deserves it.

Scamp Nov 20th 2012 7:52 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by norsk (Post 10391875)
Red Bull's success over the last few years is the product of Adrian Newey's genius engineering talent. The driver (in this case Vettel) has impact by giving feedback on setup and handling, but that's about it.

F1 cannot be compared to football! Even remotely..

Alright, I'll say it minus any comparisons.

Being considered the 'better' driver doesn't mean you should win the world title. You have to win more races, win more points and be more reliable. End of.


Originally Posted by Kix (Post 10391886)
Not a good analogy there, the teams are made up of 20 odd players in a season, it's also down to the manager and, although I hate to say it, the whinging scotsman is a far better manager than the italian.

Vettel comes across as such a decent guy, don't know anyone who has a bad thing to say about him, but, as was said, he has had by far the best car of the season and the fact that Alonso is still in with a shout (albeit a slight one at that), shows just how good he is as a driver, and it is after all, the Driver's Championship, Red Bull have already won the Constructors one, ran away with it really.

Vettel will win it, but Alonso deserves it.

What about Webber then? Surely their cars are not so different that Vettels is miles quicker? Webber wouldn't stick for that.

Alonso deserves it if he wins it. Otherwise Vettel deserves it because he's won it.

norsk Nov 20th 2012 8:11 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391952)
Alright, I'll say it minus any comparisons.

Being considered the 'better' driver doesn't mean you should win the world title. You have to win more races, win more points and be more reliable. End of.

of course you have to get more points to win, but that is the absolute measure. the 'deserve' factor is based on feeling and emotion.

Let me put it like this;

Vettel has a better car than Alonso hence he should win. Alonso is a better driver than Vettel (in my opinion) hence he deserves to win. However it wouldn't surprise me if Hamilton wins the last race (he deserves it) and Massa has a role to play....Ferrari have been dirty for many years, why would they suddenly stop now!

Scamp Nov 20th 2012 8:14 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by norsk (Post 10391970)
of course you have to get more points to win, but that is the absolute measure. the 'deserve' factor is based on feeling and emotion.

Let me put it like this;

Vettel has a better car than Alonso hence he should win. Alonso is a better driver than Vettel (in my opinion) hence he deserves to win. However it wouldn't surprise me if Hamilton wins the last race (he deserves it) and Massa has a role to play....Ferrari have been dirty for many years, why would they suddenly stop now!

I completely understand where you're coming from, I'm just telling you that you're wrong ;);););) (In my opinion before you take that the wrong way)

norsk Nov 20th 2012 8:15 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391952)
What about Webber then? Surely their cars are not so different that Vettels is miles quicker? Webber wouldn't stick for that.

Two points;

1. They have different driving styles (car suits Vettel better than Webber)
2. Webber is about a foot taller than Vettel which will affect the balance and performance.

Cars are normally the same/similar except for when one driver opts to use an upgrade and the other doesn't..

norsk Nov 20th 2012 8:16 am

Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 10391975)
I completely understand where you're coming from, I'm just telling you that you're wrong ;);););) (In my opinion before you take that the wrong way)

I know. Don't worry. I'm just arguing with you. :thumbsup: We will never agree..


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