Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Middle East > The Sand Pit
Reload this Page >

Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Old Nov 18th 2012, 6:34 pm
  #16  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by norsk View Post
Not in this race he won't, but in Brazil for sure it would be an option. It would definitely give him some notoriety in same way Schuey used to have.

In my opinion Vettel is a very lucky boy to have been at Red Bull during a period in which their car has been consistently better than any other team. Sure he's a decent driver (as are most of the drivers in F1), but I don't believe for a second he is as good as Alonso, Kimi or Lewis when lumbered with a less than perfect ride.

I personally hope he loses the championship by one point to Alonso, and it makes me sick just saying that as I despise the Spanish whiner with a passion.

Only a couple of minutes to all lights out..
Search for that piece about Vettel when he was ten years old......... everyone knew way back then how good he was.............
The Dean is offline  
Old Nov 18th 2012, 6:36 pm
  #17  
Token Scandinavian Bloke
 
norsk's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2,820
norsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond reputenorsk has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Search for that piece about Vettel when he was ten years old......... everyone knew way back then how good he was.............
I'm not saying he's not good. You don't get a seat in F1 without being a bloody good driver, but what I am claiming is that there are others who are a level above him...
norsk is offline  
Old Nov 18th 2012, 7:11 pm
  #18  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by norsk View Post
I'm not saying he's not good. You don't get a seat in F1 without being a bloody good driver, but what I am claiming is that there are others who are a level above him...
He's as good as Schumacher at the same stage of his career.............
The Dean is offline  
Old Nov 18th 2012, 9:35 pm
  #19  
Powered by cows
 
Autonomy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: currently Dubai, ex UK
Posts: 4,581
Autonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond reputeAutonomy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
He's as good as Schumacher at the same stage of his career.............
How I wish an old poster was still here... SYB......
Autonomy is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 4:49 am
  #20  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Inselaffen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Inselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by Autonomy View Post
How I wish an old poster was still here... SYB......
he'd still be praising Kimi!

after the last bit of Ferrari cheating I hope Alonso doesn't win it!
Inselaffen is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 5:17 am
  #21  
Gold-Helmeted Member
 
captainflack's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Setubal-ish
Posts: 631
captainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
after the last bit of Ferrari cheating I hope Alonso doesn't win it!
I don't really have a problem with what they did at this point in the season. It makes perfect sense, and the rules are the rules, so it's perfectly fair to use them to your advantage. I do have a problem with the fact they do this kind of thing right from the start of the season. No other team has team orders from the start; Kimi, Schumacher, Hamilton and even Vettel are all expected to race their team-mates. So it's fair to say, much as Alonso has driven well, he has not 'beaten' the only other guy in the same car, whereas Vettel has.

Have to say, the circuit is a classic in my opinion. In particular, some of the corners are extremely wide, which means drivers can take very different lines through them to overtake... and many times we saw two cars alongside each other both getting through the corners. That added to the rather slippery surface makes even a dry race quite exciting. I hope they don't resurface the track for more grip next year because of complaints from the drivers. Rather than have deliberately flaky tyres, it would be much better to have better durable tyres like we had at this race, and a surface with poor grip. This race was exciting even though tyre wear was not an issue and pretty much everyone only stopped once. We got to see some real racing and not just passing during pitstops.
captainflack is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 5:22 am
  #22  
WWLLCJD?
 
Scamp's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 22,343
Scamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by captainflack View Post
I don't really have a problem with what they did at this point in the season. It makes perfect sense, and the rules are the rules, so it's perfectly fair to use them to your advantage..
I agree, to a point. I think it's a bit wrong to be able to manipulate the grid and make other drivers lose out on the better grip and grid position by moving them to the less favourable side of the track.
Scamp is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 5:23 am
  #23  
Gold-Helmeted Member
 
captainflack's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Setubal-ish
Posts: 631
captainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by norsk View Post
Not in this race he won't, but in Brazil for sure it would be an option. It would definitely give him some notoriety in same way Schuey used to have.
I think F1 has changed rather too much since those days. I think it was Schumacher trying to take out Jacques Villeneuve in 97 that did it. As I recall, he was disqualified from the championship or lost all his points (fortunately he busted his car and not Villeneuves, so the right guy won even without that intervention). So they set the precedent that you cannot win a title with a move like that, which is a good thing in my opinion. Brazil is always exciting and I'd not want it to end on the first corner. Let's have some rain 10 laps from the end to sort the field out.
captainflack is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 5:30 am
  #24  
Gold-Helmeted Member
 
captainflack's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Setubal-ish
Posts: 631
captainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond reputecaptainflack has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I agree, to a point. I think it's a bit wrong to be able to manipulate the grid and make other drivers lose out on the better grip and grid position by moving them to the less favourable side of the track.
I can see the argument, I just think it is difficult to police. You'd have to have the FIA overseeing why a team is breaking the seal, whereas now the situation is much clearer. I don't have a problem with it, as long as the rule is consistent so if another team does similar next year, they don't get penalized.

I was a little surprised RB didn't bump webber down from 3rd to 8th with a similar trick. Alonso would have then been promoted to 6th but on dirty side of grid, with webber right behind him (also on dirty side). Grosjean would have been 7th, on the clean side of the grid. And we know what he is like with first corner/lap accidents... Play Ferrari at their own game.

Last edited by captainflack; Nov 19th 2012 at 5:33 am.
captainflack is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 5:32 am
  #25  
WWLLCJD?
 
Scamp's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 22,343
Scamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by captainflack View Post
I can see the argument, I just think it is difficult to police. You'd have to have the FIA overseeing why a team is breaking the seal, whereas now the situation is much clearer. I don't have a problem with it, as long as the rule is consistent so if another team does similar next year, they don't get penalized.

I was a little surprised RB didn't bump webber down from 3rd to 8th with a similar trick. Alonso would have then been promoted to 6th but on dirty side of grid, with webber right behind him (also on dirty side). Play Ferrari at their own game.
True, consistency is key.

That would have been utterly brilliant! Wish they'd done it. Still, 13 point gap now so Vettel needs to do what Hamilton did in Brazil a few years back, finish in a decent position and the title is his.
Scamp is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 7:22 am
  #26  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Inselaffen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Inselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
True, consistency is key.

That would have been utterly brilliant! Wish they'd done it. Still, 13 point gap now so Vettel needs to do what Hamilton did in Brazil a few years back, finish in a decent position and the title is his.
Ferrari have made it clear they waited until the last possible moment to do it in order to prevent RB from doing the same.

I'd love it if Webber took out Alonso the first corner.
Inselaffen is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 7:37 am
  #27  
WWLLCJD?
 
Scamp's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 22,343
Scamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
Ferrari have made it clear they waited until the last possible moment to do it in order to prevent RB from doing the same.

I'd love it if Webber took out Alonso the first corner.
I'd love it if Massa did that. Or Hamilton, just to wind up the knobhead.
Scamp is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 8:03 am
  #28  
 
rowell's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,271
rowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond reputerowell has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I'd love it if Massa did that. Or Hamilton, just to wind up the knobhead.
Makes for an interesting finale
rowell is offline  
Old Nov 19th 2012, 10:12 am
  #29  
**** it we'll do it live
 
shiva's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 7,892
shiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond reputeshiva has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Originally Posted by captainflack View Post
I can see the argument, I just think it is difficult to police. You'd have to have the FIA overseeing why a team is breaking the seal, whereas now the situation is much clearer. I don't have a problem with it, as long as the rule is consistent so if another team does similar next year, they don't get penalized.
you do, the scrutineering teams oversee everything the teams do, its why they knew in Abu Dhabi that vettel had run out of fuel despite the team telling them renault had said it was an engine problem so stop the car. the scrutineers had watched them put fuel in and take it out all day in an attempt to confuse them but the guys kept count properly so he was asked for a fuel sample they knew he'd be light on.

all part of the game between the teams, each other and the officials
shiva is offline  
Old Nov 20th 2012, 4:30 am
  #30  
BE Enthusiast
 
The_Citizen's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Dubai
Posts: 542
The_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to allThe_Citizen is a name known to all
Default Re: Vettel v Alonso - who deserves the title?

Vettel is a fantastic driver in my opinion, but if he stays with Red Bull for the majority of his career then nobody will know just how good he is!

I don't want him to move to Ferrari but another top team would be good and see how he fares then! Kimi and Vettel at Lotus would be fun.
The_Citizen is offline  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.