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US Presidential election

US Presidential election

Old Aug 30th 2012, 7:55 am
  #46  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

I don't find Paul Ryan terrifying in the slightest (although I'm somewhat disturbed to learn of the efforts the GOP are going to in order to stop Ron Paul supporters from having their voices heard).

It seems to me that we are living through an era of countries/governments believing it's OK to borrow money they will never - ever - be able to repay, just so they and their people can enjoy a better standard of living now........ like I said, that's immoral. Ryan is prepared to stand up and say no to it, and he deserves credit (Romney isn't on the same planet, intellectually) for that, whatever the outcome. I don't care about the Republican-v-Democrat stuff - all US parties are right of centre by any other standards, so it's mere nomenclature.

It's not just the US though - some of the Eurozone countries are, in effect and in reality, bankrupt. Same reasons, same outcomes. All of us will find that our grandchildren will be immeasurably poorer because our generation greedily paid ourselves more than we could afford, and more than we deserved. Nobody seems to have considered the possibility that our grandchildren might refuse to pay the bill - what then?

Global civil unrest virtually guaranteed.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:11 am
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
I don't find Paul Ryan terrifying in the slightest (although I'm somewhat disturbed to learn of the efforts the GOP are going to in order to stop Ron Paul supporters from having their voices heard).

It seems to me that we are living through an era of countries/governments believing it's OK to borrow money they will never - ever - be able to repay, just so they and their people can enjoy a better standard of living now........ like I said, that's immoral. Ryan is prepared to stand up and say no to it, and he deserves credit (Romney isn't on the same planet, intellectually) for that, whatever the outcome. I don't care about the Republican-v-Democrat stuff - all US parties are right of centre by any other standards, so it's mere nomenclature.

It's not just the US though - some of the Eurozone countries are, in effect and in reality, bankrupt. Same reasons, same outcomes. All of us will find that our grandchildren will be immeasurably poorer because our generation greedily paid ourselves more than we could afford, and more than we deserved. Nobody seems to have considered the possibility that our grandchildren might refuse to pay the bill - what then?

Global civil unrest virtually guaranteed.
Every person under the age of 50 (US) should at least give a listen to Paul Ryan's warnings. Even if they vote Obama perhaps they will see the coming disaster clearer.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:26 am
  #48  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

regarding borrowing money i couldnt agree more, i saw the current crisis coming a long time ago and still think we havent tackled the underlying issue in anyway. alll the measure taken globally so far are just a postponment.

however i fail to see how the republicans can have the audacity to sell a solution to its voters that sees the richest pay less tax and the poorest pay more. that isnt a solution its morally bankrupt theft.

lets not forget ryans hypocracy
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...stimulus-cash/
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:39 am
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
It's too late this time, but the excellent Paul Ryan would have made a superb candidate - now he will almost certainly will be tainted and saddled with failure and forever associated with Romney. Shame.
Been drininking the Kool-Aid? Ryan is an empty (over-sized suit) whose self-declared motivation for entering politics was air-head Ayn Rand's nonsense "philosophy" of supreme selfishness. In congress he voted for every single one of the major contributors to the deficit that he now so loudly decries: the Bush tax cuts (several times over), wars in Afghanisatn and Iraq, Medicare Title D (a very cynical Republican move), TARP, increases in defence budgets.... ALL OF THEM. And suddenly when there is a Democrat president he gets religion and cooks up his famed budget plan which itself is nothing more than a cover for tax cuts for the wealthy. Because it refuses to touch military expenditure and insists on those tax cuts, his "plan" requires cutting more than 90% - yes 90% - of other discretionary expenditure in order to balance the budget by.....2040! Even with that distinctly unambitious target it is hopelessly vague about the critical choices to be made so is unworthy of the designation "plan".

Yet because if the state of US politics in general and Republicans in particular, he is lauded as an "intellectual leader". What a joke! I also can't bring myself to respect anybody who proudly introduces himself as a "Catholic deerhunter". But that fits the bill with his attempt to smear Obama for cutting Medicare budgets when one of the few concrete proposals in his own plan is to replace Medicare - basically the NHS for older people - with a voucher system. The Repubs know that is a major vote loser (from their special congressional election results since it has been mooted) so they are diverting attention with very blatant lies about Obama's welfare and Medicare policies.

I have to say this Republican campaign and ticket is the most deceitful and repulsive that I have ever seen - and I was living in the US for Lee Atwater's notorious 1988 scorched-earth Bush I campaign. Romney is awful but it seems to me that Ryan only amplifies his awfulness by reflecting it. I subscribe to the conspiracy theory now that Romney picked him because he knows he's going down in flames anyway. This way the tea-party loonies can't turn around afterwards and say he lost because he wasn't sufficiently extreme. Romney was forced into picking him anyway and looked weak for doing so but he now has his alibi against the inevitable vicious recriminations. I suspect he was only ever really motivated by winning the Republican nomination that eluded his father (a genuinely decent Republican of the old school): just what we need another scion of a dodgy dynasty seeking to resolve some daddy issues... I would take McCain/Palin or even Bush III over this pair of walking disasters.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:48 am
  #50  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

cracking stuff here (caveat i do agree with a few on the site but i suspect thats mere coincidence)

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan.htm/

including
Voted YES on banning federal health coverage that includes abortion. (May 2011)
Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)

Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
Voted NO on regulating the subprime mortgage industry. (Nov 2007)

Voted YES on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted YES on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted YES on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
Rated 13% by the ACLU, indicating an anti-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 36% by NAACP, indicating a mixed record on affirmative-action. (Dec 2006)

Voted NO on enforcing against anti-gay hate crimes. (Apr 2009)
Voted NO on expanding services for offenders' re-entry into society. (Nov 2007)
Voted NO on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime. (Jun 1999)
Rated 30% by CURE, indicating anti-rehabilitation crime votes. (Dec 2000)

Voted YES on prohibiting needle exchange & medical marijuana in DC. (Oct 1999)

Voted YES on opening Outer Continental Shelf to oil drilling. (May 2011)
Voted YES on barring EPA from regulating greenhouse gases. (Apr 2011)
Voted NO on enforcing limits on CO2 global warming pollution. (Jun 2009)
Voted NO on tax credits for renewable electricity, with PAYGO offsets. (Sep 2008)
Voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (May 2008)
Voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008)
Voted NO on investing in homegrown biofuel. (Aug 2007)
Voted NO on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on raising CAFE standards; incentives for alternative fuels. (Aug 2001)
Voted NO on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol. (Jun 2000)

Voted NO on supporting democratic institutions in Pakistan. (Jun 2009)
Voted YES on requiring photo ID for voting in federal elections. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on restricting independent grassroots political committees. (Apr 2006)
Voted YES on decreasing gun waiting period from 3 days to 1. (Jun 1999)

Voted NO on regulating tobacco as a drug. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on limiting medical malpractice lawsuits to $250,000 damages. (May 2004)
Voted YES on capping damages & setting time limits in medical lawsuits. (Mar 2003)
Voted YES on allowing suing HMOs, but under federal rules & limited award. (Aug 2001)
Voted YES on banning physician-assisted suicide. (Oct 1999)


Voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act's roving wiretaps. (Feb 2011)
Voted YES on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on continuing intelligence gathering without civil oversight. (Apr 2006)

Voted NO on restricting employer interference in union organizing. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Jan 2007)
Voted YES on end offshore tax havens and promote small business. (Oct 2004) Wonder if mitt knows this?

Voted YES on making the Bush tax cuts permanent. (Apr 2002)
Voted YES on $99 B economic stimulus: capital gains & income tax cuts. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on retroactive immunity for telecoms' warrantless surveillance. (Jun 2008)

Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq. (Jun 2008)
Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)



yup a real stand up guy

Last edited by shiva; Aug 30th 2012 at 8:50 am.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:51 am
  #51  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

this also looks worth a read
http://thepaulryanwatch.blogspot.com/
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:52 am
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by Meow View Post


The US political system is madness. No one can get anywhere without millions of dollars behind them and the support of big business. The fact the elections seem to go on for years totally detracts from the job of actually runnibng the country/states. Not to even mention the sickening amounts spent on trying to get elected.

Makes the UK system look like a model of common sense.
One simple reform that could blunt the impact of big money and lobbyists, as counter-intuitive as it might sound: double the length of congressional terms. Currently members are elected to the House of Representatives for 2 year terms so they spend all their time worrying about and seeking funding for the next election.

Couple that with a requirement for completely impartial election boundary commissions in every state to overcome the ludicrous partisan gerrymandering that now takes place. This is the reason Congress has become so extreme - most districts are now configured to be extremely safe so candidates don't have to bother about being sensible or honest or even pretend to cater to anything other than a very narrow interest group.

Then you might get some real improvement.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:57 am
  #53  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by Miss Anne Thrope View Post
Been drininking the Kool-Aid? Ryan is an empty (over-sized suit) whose self-declared motivation for entering politics was air-head Ayn Rand's nonsense "philosophy" of supreme selfishness. In congress he voted for every single one of the major contributors to the deficit that he now so loudly decries: the Bush tax cuts (several times over), wars in Afghanisatn and Iraq, Medicare Title D (a very cynical Republican move), TARP, increases in defence budgets.... ALL OF THEM. And suddenly when there is a Democrat president he gets religion and cooks up his famed budget plan which itself is nothing more than a cover for tax cuts for the wealthy. Because it refuses to touch military expenditure and insists on those tax cuts, his "plan" requires cutting more than 90% - yes 90% - of other discretionary expenditure in order to balance the budget by.....2040! Even with that distinctly unambitious target it is hopelessly vague about the critical choices to be made so is unworthy of the designation "plan".

Yet because if the state of US politics in general and Republicans in particular, he is lauded as an "intellectual leader". What a joke! I also can't bring myself to respect anybody who proudly introduces himself as a "Catholic deerhunter". But that fits the bill with his attempt to smear Obama for cutting Medicare budgets when one of the few concrete proposals in his own plan is to replace Medicare - basically the NHS for older people - with a voucher system. The Repubs know that is a major vote loser (from their special congressional election results since it has been mooted) so they are diverting attention with very blatant lies about Obama's welfare and Medicare policies.

I have to say this Republican campaign and ticket is the most deceitful and repulsive that I have ever seen - and I was living in the US for Lee Atwater's notorious 1988 scorched-earth Bush I campaign. Romney is awful but it seems to me that Ryan only amplifies his awfulness by reflecting it. I subscribe to the conspiracy theory now that Romney picked him because he knows he's going down in flames anyway. This way the tea-party loonies can't turn around afterwards and say he lost because he wasn't sufficiently extreme. Romney was forced into picking him anyway and looked weak for doing so but he now has his alibi against the inevitable vicious recriminations. I suspect he was only ever really motivated by winning the Republican nomination that eluded his father (a genuinely decent Republican of the old school): just what we need another scion of a dodgy dynasty seeking to resolve some daddy issues... I would take McCain/Palin or even Bush III over this pair of walking disasters.
Your weight of arguments far outweighs mine - not surprising. I agree it's probably the weakest election (on both sides) in US history - but Obama MUST go. If you're right, I fear for the US, which means I fear for the world. Which brings me back to my comment about the bill our grandchildren will have to pay (by 2040?) for the current and ongoing excess. If it were me, I would refuse.

You are attempting simply to pick Ryan and his policies/background to pieces, which you do very well. Fine - but nobody else is going to grasp this. A Romney/Ryan White House will probably fail, but at least Ryan understands what the problem is...........
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 8:58 am
  #54  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by shiva View Post
cracking stuff here (caveat i do agree with a few on the site but i suspect thats mere coincidence)

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan.htm/

including
Voted YES on banning federal health coverage that includes abortion. (May 2011)
Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)

Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
Voted NO on regulating the subprime mortgage industry. (Nov 2007)

Voted YES on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted YES on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted YES on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
Rated 13% by the ACLU, indicating an anti-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 36% by NAACP, indicating a mixed record on affirmative-action. (Dec 2006)

Voted NO on enforcing against anti-gay hate crimes. (Apr 2009)
Voted NO on expanding services for offenders' re-entry into society. (Nov 2007)
Voted NO on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime. (Jun 1999)
Rated 30% by CURE, indicating anti-rehabilitation crime votes. (Dec 2000)

Voted YES on prohibiting needle exchange & medical marijuana in DC. (Oct 1999)

Voted YES on opening Outer Continental Shelf to oil drilling. (May 2011)
Voted YES on barring EPA from regulating greenhouse gases. (Apr 2011)
Voted NO on enforcing limits on CO2 global warming pollution. (Jun 2009)
Voted NO on tax credits for renewable electricity, with PAYGO offsets. (Sep 2008)
Voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (May 2008)
Voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008)
Voted NO on investing in homegrown biofuel. (Aug 2007)
Voted NO on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on raising CAFE standards; incentives for alternative fuels. (Aug 2001)
Voted NO on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol. (Jun 2000)

Voted NO on supporting democratic institutions in Pakistan. (Jun 2009)
Voted YES on requiring photo ID for voting in federal elections. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on restricting independent grassroots political committees. (Apr 2006)
Voted YES on decreasing gun waiting period from 3 days to 1. (Jun 1999)

Voted NO on regulating tobacco as a drug. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on limiting medical malpractice lawsuits to $250,000 damages. (May 2004)
Voted YES on capping damages & setting time limits in medical lawsuits. (Mar 2003)
Voted YES on allowing suing HMOs, but under federal rules & limited award. (Aug 2001)
Voted YES on banning physician-assisted suicide. (Oct 1999)


Voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act's roving wiretaps. (Feb 2011)
Voted YES on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on continuing intelligence gathering without civil oversight. (Apr 2006)

Voted NO on restricting employer interference in union organizing. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Jan 2007)
Voted YES on end offshore tax havens and promote small business. (Oct 2004) Wonder if mitt knows this?

Voted YES on making the Bush tax cuts permanent. (Apr 2002)
Voted YES on $99 B economic stimulus: capital gains & income tax cuts. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on retroactive immunity for telecoms' warrantless surveillance. (Jun 2008)

Voted NO on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq. (Jun 2008)
Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)



yup a real stand up guy
By liberal UK standards he couldn't be elected dog catcher. However as you know apples and oranges. That voting record is very mainstream Republican. That Kyoto vote you posted, wasn't that the same one voted down 98 to 0 in the US senate? Includes both parties and the one socialist from Vermont.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 9:01 am
  #55  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
A Romney/Ryan White House will probably fail, but at least Ryan understands what the problem is...........
and as his track record shows will gleely ignore it and make the problem worse not better
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 9:28 am
  #56  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Your weight of arguments far outweighs mine - not surprising. I agree it's probably the weakest election (on both sides) in US history - but Obama MUST go. If you're right, I fear for the US, which means I fear for the world.
I respect you don't believe Obama is capable of doing the job (I personally believe he is more than capable, but is hamstrung by an extremely hostile congress), but how on earth can you seriously believe that Romney/Ryan would be better for the future of the world?

At least with Obama, there is a good chance of preventing a war between Iran and the West unless absolutely necessary.

Romney made it perfectly clear during his visit to Israel that he wants to see a war. It also ties into his belief that military funding shouldn't be cut. Of course funding would naturally be cut with the US now out of Iraq and soon to be out of Afganistan.

But the Military Industrial complex doesn't like that, because it means revenues will drop. So what better way to shore up the profits and support of the MI complex by starting another war?

It's painfully obvious we'll be headed if Rmoney and Ryan beat Obama.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 9:31 am
  #57  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by auzdafluff View Post
I respect you don't believe Obama is capable of doing the job (I personally believe he is more than capable, but is hamstrung by an extremely hostile congress), but how on earth can you seriously believe that Romney/Ryan would be better for the future of the world?

At least with Obama, there is a good chance of preventing a war between Iran and the West unless absolutely necessary.

Romney made it perfectly clear during his visit to Israel that he wants to see a war. It also ties into his belief that military funding shouldn't be cut. Of course funding would naturally be cut with the US now out of Iraq and soon to be out of Afganistan.

But the Military Industrial complex doesn't like that, because it means revenues will drop. So what better way to shore up the profits and support of the MI complex by starting another war?

It's painfully obvious we'll be headed if Rmoney and Ryan beat Obama.
Romney needs every vote he can get, campaigns have little to do with what happens after inaguration day/ The undecided Jewish vote may prove needed. Don't even bring up pandering without considering Obamas response to the critical Latino vote.

Last edited by Beaverstate; Aug 30th 2012 at 9:35 am.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 9:34 am
  #58  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
I don't find Paul Ryan terrifying in the slightest (although I'm somewhat disturbed to learn of the efforts the GOP are going to in order to stop Ron Paul supporters from having their voices heard).

It seems to me that we are living through an era of countries/governments believing it's OK to borrow money they will never - ever - be able to repay, just so they and their people can enjoy a better standard of living now........ like I said, that's immoral. Ryan is prepared to stand up and say no to it, and he deserves credit (Romney isn't on the same planet, intellectually) for that, whatever the outcome. I don't care about the Republican-v-Democrat stuff - all US parties are right of centre by any other standards, so it's mere nomenclature.

It's not just the US though - some of the Eurozone countries are, in effect and in reality, bankrupt. Same reasons, same outcomes. All of us will find that our grandchildren will be immeasurably poorer because our generation greedily paid ourselves more than we could afford, and more than we deserved. Nobody seems to have considered the possibility that our grandchildren might refuse to pay the bill - what then?

Global civil unrest virtually guaranteed.
Ryan hasn't bluntly opposed the bloated Defense budget and American overseas military adventures. This is the problem with Republicans, they always want to cut funding of programs for the working class and National Public Radio / Public Broadcasting BUT ignore all the welfare corperations receive and NeoConservative empire building.

Ryan is a fan of Ayn Rand, that is enough to dislike the guy. That right there tells me he is your typical Social Darwinist Republican.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 9:40 am
  #59  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by Boomhauer View Post
Ryan hasn't bluntly opposed the bloated Defense budget and American overseas military adventures. This is the problem with Republicans, they always want to cut funding of programs for the working class and National Public Radio / Public Broadcasting BUT ignore all the welfare corperations receive and NeoConservative empire building.

Ryan is a fan of Ayn Rand, that is enough to dislike the guy. That right there tells me he is your typical Social Darwinist Republican.
Percentage of US outlays for defense in 1960 (pre Vietnam) 40%. Now 20% and dropping. Ayn Rand? Jeez I read a Playboy article once... doesn't make me a disciple of Hugh Hefner.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 9:42 am
  #60  
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Default Re: US Presidential election

Originally Posted by Beaverstate View Post
By liberal UK standards he couldn't be elected dog catcher. However as you know apples and oranges. That voting record is very mainstream Republican. That Kyoto vote you posted, wasn't that the same one voted down 98 to 0 in the US senate? Includes both parties and the one socialist from Vermont.

It always amuses me that many Americans use the word 'liberal' as an insult. To much of the rest of the world it means being reasonable, open-minded and tolerant.
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