Hello.Kitty

There's more to "incentive" than money. What about personal ambition? Fulfilment? A sense of worth? A sense of belonging? Pride?

Good lord, I can hardly imagine how a human being could not possess any of that... how lacking and unfulfilled their lives must be, and with absolutely no hope of any change. Of course, there are people out there like that, but they truly have no hope then, no outlook, no... nothing to look forward to. Ever.

Gosh.

If I were on a low income, I would be doing every course under the sun... they'd probably try to kick me out... but I guess that's why I'm here, doing what I do and not sat eating crisps on my sofa watching daytime TV day in day out.

seven seas

don't forget HK- right whingers are adamant about the fact that the poor are very comfortable as they are and prefer to remain reliant on handouts. Personal fulfilment and ambition etc are not a part of this equation. Just like how homeless people prefer to remain homeless, another one of their favourite myths.

seven seas

Why not answer your questions, and leave Yvonne's alone? Or do you also think single women are not that smart?
BTW the right answer is something along the lines of: that's an awful idea and it would be a disgusting thing to do.

seven seas

oh how caring of you. While you 'do your bit' by recognising as hard as you can (don't strain yourself), other people prefer a different approach. This approach is characterised by incorporating active verbs such as do, help, give, protect, contribute, shelter and share, rather than an approach of stative verbs such as recognise and pray and hope.

For all the abstract front it's got, this just boils down to : pull yourself up by the bootstraps and don't bother me. It's my ball and I don't want to share.

If you were really that anxious about sharing equally, you'd be welcoming the least able and talented from less-developed countries like Albania for example.

londonyvonne

Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and don't bother me - isn't that exactly what you and others are saying about those at the bottom of the pile in the UK?

My point is that the people at the bottom of the pile in the UK should be supported. Almost everybody has some talent, it's a case of finding it. So what if it takes time? The British should be Britain's first priority just as for example the Chinese should be China's first priority. And before you ask, I include everyone there

My second point is that most people would rather not emigrate and leave everything they are familiar with behind. How many British ex pats would there be in the Middle East if you could earn the same salary and benefits at home? How many "maids" and "cleaners" and "drivers" and "labourers" are working there at a fraction of the money you earn? Why the difference in income levels?

And my third point is that the brain drain from poorer countries slows down the emergence of a middle class and economic, cultural and political development there. My vision is of a world where all countries and people are equal and human beings are valued as human beings



QUOTE=seven seas;9770846]oh how caring of you. While you 'do your bit' by recognising as hard as you can (don't strain yourself), other people prefer a different approach. This approach is characterised by incorporating active verbs such as do, help, give, protect, contribute, shelter and share, rather than an approach of stative verbs such as recognise and pray and hope.

For all the abstract front it's got, this just boils down to : pull yourself up by the bootstraps and don't bother me. It's my ball and I don't want to share.

If you were really that anxious about sharing equally, you'd be welcoming the least able and talented from less-developed countries like Albania for example.[/QUOTE]

Paracletus

Now here's a decent point..just check out the amount of people on these boards that have a dislike for the local culture and are only doing it for the money..

Still, there are enough of adventurous people who happily leave their home comforts for a bit of excitement. There's also a growing number of 'TCK's in this world. Let's not forget the technomads either.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6210358.stm (a bit old...but still relevant)

Cow Pie

Bravo Ronnie. Some of the comments being made in this thread are making me feel a little sick. Utter tripe.

londonyvonne

What is narrow minded about wanting to support underachievers to fulfill a useful role in their society rather than consign them to the dustbin?

What is narrow minded about wanting to encourage developing countries to develope rather than encouraging immigration?

Are you an Imperialist?

Cow Pie

Kitty made a valid point about taking the horse to water... OF COURSE there is no such thing as a genuine asylum seeker - a person who genuinely is in fear for his or her own life in their country of origin - they all just flocked to Great Britain for the benefits (please detect the irony). The people in these videos deserve nothing but pity and scorn. They are an embarrassment to a country I still love and I only wish in these instances that flogging were still around. Amazing that in the four videos I have seen of these racist pigs they are all hammered. I am sick of hearing excuses made for them and the government should stop molly-coddling; halt their bitching and moaning and blaming other people for their woes and misfortunes it is all quite pathetic. The truth is the jobs that are out there are apparently 'too far below' these poorly educated, ignorant, bigoted excuses for humanity.

I chose to be an expat for the experience - net-net living in Dubai is not a massive money-making exercise in my case as I choose to spend and enjoy the life I work so bloody hard for. I choose to go home next year - I truly miss Europe. A Utopian ambition for the world is sublime - people being able to eat and drink daily and an abolition of poverty. But I support capitalism and where there is capitalism there will always be rich and poor (and yes the gap is becoming ridiculous and subject of a separate debate).

I am disappointed that the mods on this forum have allowed some of the blatant BNP-sympathetic racist nonsense to be posted here. Brits first, whites first...??? Help those who will be helped - I do agree. The rest of the lager-drinking pond life should be asked by the Home Office to justify THEIR citizenship. Contribute or leave. But where would they go??? Who would even have them?

londonyvonne

Haha

So hiding under the cloak of non-rascist, you are actually the bigot. So long as you don't hate someone for their skin colour, it's OK.

There is no difference between you and lager drinking pond life except circumstances and genes, we are all a product of our environment. They are human beings with something to offer and they deserve a voice and suppport, just like everyone else.

As for asylum seekers, what is the point if everyone who is politically, culturally, economically or sexually persecuted flees? How will that country ever change? What about the ones left behind? Change comes from within, and it doesn't happen overnight. The current European system took centuries to achieve in Europe and involved bloodshed. That process will eventually occur everywhere.

Paracletus

Change also comes from outside. And are you implying that the European system is somehow superior and the rest of the world should model itself on it?

Cow Pie

My cloak of non-racism? Wake up. You seriously think I am not aware that there are people in the UK who need help? Who deserve a chance? Is a lack of fortune any excuse for blatant racism? Do they also resent old people for taking their benefits too? Or is it OK provided they are British 'through and through' whatever that means?

The simple fact of it is that a lack of intelligence is the issue here - blind ignorance and a blame culture that says I don't have what I want in life so I am going to blame everybody but myself. I have friends who started with nothing and through sheer guts and determination have managed to carve a life for themselves. That is worthy of respect; the people I have seen on these videos are worthy of nothing but a bloody good hiding frankly.

And as for the point of difference between me and pond life, you know nothing about me so are in absolutely no position to comment. What I do know about you without knowing a thing about your circumstances is that some of your opinions are unsavoury to say the least.

I have nothing else to say on this matter.

londonyvonne

Influence can come from outside and does, but real change comes from within and takes longer. Change from outside can be imposed, but unless it is taken on within as well it won't last.

This applies to individuals and societies.

I should have said that economic, political, cultural etc change will eventually happen everywhere rather than that what happened in Europe will eventually happen everywhere. Evolution is innate in life.

londonyvonne

And some of the language you have used and calls for flogging and a bloody good hiding are not unsavoury? Did you go to a public school?

lullabelle

Everything you have said on this post and all your other posts on this subject, is bang on. I grew up on total shithole estates surrounded by scum like the tram racist. They knew how to work the system - most never had any intention of getting a job, holding a job down, slogging to make their way in life like my cleaner granny and my brickie grandad (who left the UK to work in Africa after the war as there was no work in Dundee... yup, he went to another country to make sure his wife and young child didn't starve)

Yet these same people would be the first to blame their many real and imagined problems on immigrants. Harassing the indian guy running the local grocery shop (or attacking it - fogetting that whenever they trashed it there was nowhere nearby to buy their fags and half bottles of cheap vodka) drunkenly slagging off the bus conductor. On and on and on... its the immigrant's fault they live in a crappy council flat, have no money, drink themselves into oblivion every night (oooh, look, money to do THAT), etc as if they had been poised for greatness before all those brown people came and stole their thunder.

Both my parents were community workers trying to make a difference with the kids of these slummy gits. Sometimes they did, more often than not they were fighting a losing battle from a home education that mainly featured bigoted indoctrination and violence.

I don't know what the answer is to get out of that particular poverty cycle. I do know that there are people who don't want help, don't care about their
kids, will never work unless forced. How are they doing anything that makes Britain Great? This isn't a new class of scum, they've been around for years.