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Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Old Aug 13th 2013, 9:15 am
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Default Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Who'd have thunk it:

"If you look at the studies conducted over the past century, you will find that those with religious beliefs will, on the whole, score lower on tests of intelligence.
This is the first systematic meta-analysis of 63 studies conducted between 1928 and 2012. In such an analysis, the authors look at each study’s sample size, quality of data collection, and analysis methods and then account for biases that may have inadvertently crept into the work. This data is next refracted through the prism of statistical theory to draw an overarching conclusion of what scholars in this field find. “Our conclusion,” as Zuckerman puts it, “is not new.”
“If you count the number of studies which find a positive correlation against those that find a negative correlation, you can draw the same conclusion because most studies find a negative correlation,” added Zuckerman. But that conclusion would be qualitative, because the studies’ methods vary. “What we have done is to draw that conclusion more accurately through statistical analysis.”

http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/...nce-and-faith/
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Old Aug 13th 2013, 12:34 pm
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
Who'd have thunk it:

"If you look at the studies conducted over the past century, you will find that those with religious beliefs will, on the whole, score lower on tests of intelligence.
This is the first systematic meta-analysis of 63 studies conducted between 1928 and 2012. In such an analysis, the authors look at each study’s sample size, quality of data collection, and analysis methods and then account for biases that may have inadvertently crept into the work. This data is next refracted through the prism of statistical theory to draw an overarching conclusion of what scholars in this field find. “Our conclusion,” as Zuckerman puts it, “is not new.”
“If you count the number of studies which find a positive correlation against those that find a negative correlation, you can draw the same conclusion because most studies find a negative correlation,” added Zuckerman. But that conclusion would be qualitative, because the studies’ methods vary. “What we have done is to draw that conclusion more accurately through statistical analysis.”

http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/...nce-and-faith/
Although my gut feeling is very much in line with the (latest) findings, the stats-babble does sound rather like, "We took all available data and manipulated them until we got the answer we were looking for.".
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Old Aug 13th 2013, 1:32 pm
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
"We took all available data and manipulated them until we got the answer we were looking for.".
Does that not just describe Stats as a whole?
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Old Aug 14th 2013, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Being deluded doesn't make one less intelligent. Just as not being religious doesn't make one clever.

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Old Aug 14th 2013, 11:38 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
Being deluded doesn't make one less intelligent.

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You're going to have to explain that.
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Old Aug 14th 2013, 7:37 pm
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
You're going to have to explain that.
Some of the greatest minds in history were religious - often because no better explanation existed. Even now a minority of scientists maintain some sort of faith (likely as a crutch but that's not due to lack of intelligence...just fear of dying).

People are deluded all the time - does it make them less smart. Nope. It makes them deluded about that particular subject/object/thing that's got them hoodwinked. They may still ace IQ tests and hold down productive jobs that require brains. Most of the 911 hijackers were middle class educated men not downtrodden idiots who could barely read.

As time goes one the intellectuals of humanity are becoming less religious but that doesn't make the religious dumb, it makes them religious. What kind of religion they believe in is more important than the fact of their inclination to faith.

I say this as an atheist...

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Old Aug 14th 2013, 8:56 pm
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

A common stupid mistake commited by western intellects when they study religions. They just don’t seem to understand that Christianity is not a good model of the true religion!! Had those survey been conducted in the Muslims world, the results would have been the exact opposite. It is a fact that the majority of the Islamists in the world are degree holders and educated people. Take for example the Muslims brotherhood organization, over 60% world wide of it’s followers are university graduates. The (deposed) president of Egypt Dr. Moursi, for example, is an American graduate professor. Many of Hamas leaders are PhD and MSc. Degree holders and western educated. and so on and so forth.
Does that prove anything? Yes; that faith and intelligence (or lack of it) are not related.
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 6:59 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by redShark View Post
A common stupid mistake commited by western intellects when they study religions. They just don’t seem to understand that Christianity is not a good model of the true religion!! Had those survey been conducted in the Muslims world, the results would have been the exact opposite. It is a fact that the majority of the Islamists in the world are degree holders and educated people. Take for example the Muslims brotherhood organization, over 60% world wide of it’s followers are university graduates. The (deposed) president of Egypt Dr. Moursi, for example, is an American graduate professor. Many of Hamas leaders are PhD and MSc. Degree holders and western educated. and so on and so forth.
Does that prove anything? Yes; having been born Muslim, raised Muslim, told by all around them not to question, and threatened on pain of death not to renounce Islam, they have little or no choice or chance.
Inserted some logic for you. You're welcome
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 7:04 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by redShark View Post
A common stupid mistake commited by western intellects when they study religions. They just don’t seem to understand that Christianity is not a good model of the true religion!! Had those survey been conducted in the Muslims world, the results would have been the exact opposite. It is a fact that the majority of the Islamists in the world are degree holders and educated people. Take for example the Muslims brotherhood organization, over 60% world wide of it’s followers are university graduates. The (deposed) president of Egypt Dr. Moursi, for example, is an American graduate professor. Many of Hamas leaders are PhD and MSc. Degree holders and western educated. and so on and so forth.
Does that prove anything? Yes; that faith and intelligence (or lack of it) are not related.
Indeed, however, how easy is it to get a degree in half these places? If the retards the Universities seen to spit out in Egypt etc is anything to go by I doubt they even need to turn up to get one. Pakistan is the same.
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 7:17 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by redShark View Post
A common stupid mistake commited by western intellects when they study religions. They just don’t seem to understand that Christianity is not a good model of the true religion!! Had those survey been conducted in the Muslims world, the results would have been the exact opposite. It is a fact that the majority of the Islamists in the world are degree holders and educated people. Take for example the Muslims brotherhood organization, over 60% world wide of it’s followers are university graduates. The (deposed) president of Egypt Dr. Moursi, for example, is an American graduate professor. Many of Hamas leaders are PhD and MSc. Degree holders and western educated. and so on and so forth.
Does that prove anything? Yes; that faith and intelligence (or lack of it) are not related.
The majority of Egyptians are degree holders? The majority of Pakistanis are degree holders? Indonesians? Bangladeshis? Nigerians? North Africans? Sub-Saharan Africans?

Do you realise how stupid you sound when you come out and state that such things are "facts"?
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 7:40 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
The majority of Egyptians are degree holders? The majority of Pakistanis are degree holders? Indonesians? Bangladeshis? Nigerians? North Africans? Sub-Saharan Africans?

Do you realise how stupid you sound when you come out and state that such things are "facts"?
You do realize how stupid your argument is when you can't even differentiate between a Muslim and an Islamist. I really can't help but to pity you (judging by all your previous posts), you got along way to go in the path of education mate!!!
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 7:40 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
The majority of Egyptians are degree holders? The majority of Pakistanis are degree holders? Indonesians? Bangladeshis? Nigerians? North Africans? Sub-Saharan Africans?

Do you realise how stupid you sound when you come out and state that such things are "facts"?
You do realise that redfishie is a troll? After he/she/it's numerous dunderhead posts there is no way anyone could take what is written seriously.
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 7:58 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

I really don't know why I'm answering, maybe just because with this one the stupid it burns!
Originally Posted by redShark View Post
A common stupid mistake commited by western intellects when they study religions. They just don’t seem to understand that Christianity is not a good model of the true religion!! Ah yes the one true religion, just like all of the other thousands of religions claim to be the one true religion (rolls eyes)
Had those survey been conducted in the Muslims world, the results would have been the exact opposite. It is a fact that the majority of the Islamists in the world are degree holders and educated people. The majority you state, you then continue to give a very tiny minority of degree holders. It would be interesting if you could dig up some facts, like how many muslims in the world and of those millions how many hold a degree from recognised universities Take for example the Muslims brotherhood organization, over 60% world wide of it’s followers are university graduates. How many members? How many with degrees? Please provide some facts because your assertions are not facts, just stuff you pull out of your backside. The (deposed) president of Egypt Dr. Moursi, for example, is an American graduate professor. Many of Hamas leaders are PhD and MSc. Degree holders and western educated. and so on and so forth.Tiny tiny minority, please put these numbers in context with the number of muslims worldwide
Does that prove anything? Yes; that faith and intelligence (or lack of it) are not related.Well the studies and statistics prove otherwise. Facts my dear chap, the world as it really is, not how you wish it was.
Of the 'one true religion'™ which is the true version, sunni or shiite? Don't you think it's time you guys got all your shit in one sock?

Last edited by mikewot; Aug 15th 2013 at 8:18 am. Reason: Missed a bit!
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 8:58 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
You do realise that redfishie is a troll? After he/she/it's numerous dunderhead posts there is no way anyone could take what is written seriously.
I know...although I don't actually think he is a troll, more a deluded, unintelligent twat. I did say before I wouldn't engage with him, silly me. Trouble is, he melds in with the drivel snippets of what we hear from allegedly sensible people. Maybe he's a lot cleverer than we give him credit for, and that the drivel he spouts is just a game. Oh, hang on, that would make him a troll...
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Old Aug 15th 2013, 9:01 am
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Default Re: Those afflicted with religion are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

Originally Posted by redShark View Post
You do realize how stupid your argument is when you can't even differentiate between a Muslim and an Islamist. I really can't help but to pity you (judging by all your previous posts), you got along way to go in the path of education mate!!!
Ah, so by Ismalist you mean a fundamentalist (there's no agreed definition of that term). So its only the fundamentalists who are the clever ones, all the other Muslims aren't. Try applying some logic to that.
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