lanarkwitch

I didn't say governments were sensible, by their nature they are not, they do what they do in the hope of getting re elected.

Those who can afford a decent eduction will get one, and get good jobs,

The UK can invest all it wants in education and we can all sit at home with 5 A levels and no jobs, possibly why a lot of us are here. Education of the labour force is really only important when there is significant capital and entrepreneurship that needs it, and both of those other factors are sadly lacking at the moment Like you said yourself teaching is only 1 profession that struggles to attract candidates, until a basic viable infrastructure/direction for growth can be established, not only in the UK but in Europe as a whole, then I am afraid public services are going to remain toward the bottom of a very long to do list.

typical

The UK has only taken part in PISA for two cycles - in 2006 and 2009. It's hard to measure impact over such a period - most of the OECD had two additional cycles, in 2000 and 2003, in which to measure impact.

On the other hand, England's TIMSS score in science increased from 1995 to 2003, and again from 2003 to 2007. (2011 isn't released yet.)

I think there have been structural issues in UK education for years - Labour did somewhat better than the (Thatcher/Major) Tories here, but not much. However, frankly the increase in spending was needed for teacher salaries. The UK was facing the very real prospect of having entire schools without a single science teacher. That's what we face returning to.

Of course there is money. That's just an excuse to run down and privatise public services.

The deficit was too high going into the down cycle, but UK was in a very good position with respect to debt. Shame on the Tories for trying to confuse the two. Of course, they can't keep pretending their own growth-destroying policies aren't to blame forever.

typical

It's profoundly depressing you would say so.

We need smart, creative people to create jobs (and not tax breaks for the rich). The UK has significant capital, unfortunately handed over to the banks who then routed it through tax havens, distributed some of it as bonuses and are sitting on the rest (which at least helps protect the rest of us from further failures).

The UK will not have a viable direction for growth without an educated workforce. End of.

khitan004

I am a physics teacher, used to work in state schools as full-time and supply. Now out here because I get paid 4 times as much after tax. No brainer.

Ethos83

I think we'll have to mutually accept that we each have all the necessary statistics to support our relative positions and that we'll never change our opinions, and consider it an internet forum draw just for the sake of a civilised ending to a thread that will go nowhere.

lanarkwitch

The UK has plenty of educated people, unfortunately a lot of them have left and are working in the middle east. I would also say that smart and creative people are not always those who have the best academic record

Entrepreneurship is far from encouraged in the UK and the SME sector which is responsible for many of those jobs that are being lost in the Uk right now is suffering very badly on a number of fronts, I am not disagreeing that people need a good education, but, if you have a pound coin in your pocket you have to pick what to spend it on and right now, the pension rights of teachers is way down the to do list