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Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Old Jun 19th 2013, 3:44 am
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Default Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

A building surveyor has been jailed for 3½ years after being convicted of spray painting graffiti on an ‘industrial scale’

Kristian Holmes, 32, a surveyor at RI Building Services, was jailed after being convicted of spray-painting trains, railway buildings and a café over a period of seven years.

In all there were 39 counts of criminal damage against Holmes and one of conspiring to pervert the course of justice, with his graffiti inflicting over £250,000 worth of damage.

According to the Times, prosecutor James Murray-Smith told the jury at Blackfriars Crown Court yesterday that Holmes was “a prolific graffiti vandal”.

“We are not talking here about witty imaginative images such as those I expect you are familiar with by Banksy … I would suggest what you are dealing with is simple damage,” he said.

The Times said Holmes was caught writing his tag on a café in Brick Lane, East London, in 2009. He was released after telling police he was only reading the graffiti, but was later arrested at work in Bromley, and investigators later found an A-Z map charting where he had spray-painted across London, along with 22 spray cans and paint-spattered gloves.

He was convicted of trying to pervert the course of justice for posting a series of YouTube videos that appeared to show another man painting his tag in an attempt to derail the investigation.

According to the Times, his defence lawyer told the court that his client had “matured” considerably since his arrest, meeting his partner and becoming a father in that time.

“It is very sad to see a well-qualified gentleman, a surveyor who built up a successful career, have that career effectively shattered by proven misbehaviour,” he said


3 1/2 years inside for 7 years graffiti...beggars belief...Stuart Hall gets only 15 months for systematic abuse of children over 20 year period .
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 5:23 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by saudiflares View Post
3 1/2 years inside for 7 years graffiti...beggars belief...Stuart Hall gets only 15 months for systematic abuse of children over 20 year period.
Please remember that Hall was sentenced on the punishment set at the time the crime was committed. At that time the maximum was 2 years. Plus don't forget the age difference, Hall is 83 FFS, doing time for him is going to be much harder than for a 31 year old.
This is NOT to suggest that I'm in support of Hall but the sentence needs to be put in context.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 5:25 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
Please remember that Hall was sentenced on the punishment set at the time the crime was committed. At that time the maximum was 2 years. Plus don't forget the age difference, Hall is 83 FFS, doing time for him is going to be much harder than for a 31 year old.
This is NOT to suggest that I'm in support of Hall but the sentence needs to be put in context.
Quite - which is what I was trying to say on the other thread.......
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 5:33 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Quite - which is what I was trying to say on the other thread.......
Very good analysis in New Statesmen http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...fences-context
"There has been anger expressed at Hall receiving “only” 15 months for a series of sex offences, but it must be remembered that the judge was working within the law as it stood when the offences were committed, not as it is now."

When assessing the sentences, there are several important points to note. First is that Hall falls to be sentenced on the law as it was when he committed the offences, not on the basis of the law now. Sentencing of sexual offences has changed dramatically; attitudes are wildly different and this can be seen, for example, in the way in which rape complainants are protected from cross-examination on the sexual history. Previously, it was deemed “fair game”, but now, society understands that, for example, wearing a short skirt doesn’t mean that a woman was “up for it”. Further, the European Convention on Human Rights Art 7(1) prohibits the imposition of a heavier penalty than one “applicable” at the time of the offence. Fairness dictates that one should know, at the time of the offence, what the maximum sentence is. That is unarguable.

In that regard, the Judge was significantly restricted in the sentences that he could impose. The maximum sentence for many of Hall’s offences was two years at the time he committed them; for the remainder, the maximum was five years. Since then, the maximum sentences have been raised to 10 years and had these offences been committed today, the sentences would undoubtedly be higher.

The effect of this is that Hall’s offences need to be viewed within the context of those maximum sentences. On a very basic level, if the maximum sentence is two years’ imprisonment, a sentence of two years can be said to roughly represent the worst case of such an offence. In the context of the offence, Hall’s offences are not towards that upper limit and some of them, as the Judge noted, did not pass the custody threshold (requiring a term of imprisonment).
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 5:40 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

one's a victimless crime, the other...well
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 5:48 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by saudiflares View Post
one's a victimless crime, the other...well
Victimless? You mean all the people who have that shit inflicted on their eyes and the companies that pay to have that shit removed are not 'victims'? I understand your outrage but not your target.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 5:52 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by saudiflares View Post
one's a victimless crime, the other...well
Trying to compare the two crimes and their punishments is frankly pointless. Most people would be in agreement that they would have liked to have seen Hall get longer, but within the confines of the applicable law the sentence was restricted. Whether that should be readdressed is a different matter.

As for the surveyor - with his graffiti inflicting over £250,000 worth of damage. - I would suggest there were plenty of victims to his crime, including all those who had to pay to clean up after him. Whether locking him up, at further expense to the tax payer, is the right thing to do is questionable. Personally, I’d like to have seen him having to spend the next 3 1/2 years cleaning up graffiti, or rubbish or whatever other mess they could find for him.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 6:03 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by the_red_sheep View Post
Personally, I’d like to have seen him having to spend the next 3 1/2 years cleaning up graffiti, or rubbish or whatever other mess they could find for him.
A punishment that fits the crime? Now you are just being silly.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 6:35 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
Victimless? You mean all the people who have that shit inflicted on their eyes and the companies that pay to have that shit removed are not 'victims'? I understand your outrage but not your target.
The 'victimless' crime argument was even used, infamously, by Sir Martin Jacomb when referring to insider trading in the City - if there are 'no' victims, why is it illegal, Sir Martin?
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 6:55 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
Victimless? You mean all the people who have that shit inflicted on their eyes and the companies that pay to have that shit removed are not 'victims'? I understand your outrage but not your target.
I am bloody outraged. 3 1/2 years away from wife and new born.

Bit of disclosure I'm not actually offended by a bit of Graffiti. Adds to the fabric of big cities in my opinion. Community service good enough punishment.

Would demand the death penalty if the squirt had defaced Belgravia mind.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 7:00 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by the_red_sheep View Post
I would suggest there were plenty of victims to his crime, including all those who had to pay to clean up after him.
A caf in Brick Lane and railway property. I really do feel for the victims. Must be hard.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 7:50 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by saudiflares View Post
A caf in Brick Lane and railway property. I really do feel for the victims. Must be hard.
But who do you think pays for the clean up? The taxpayer and the customer - they're victims ultimately.

If it was your business or home that was vandalised wouldn't you be or feel like a victim?

So are you suggesting that what he did was victimless, and as such not really a crime so he should just be left to crack on with it?
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 7:58 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by the_red_sheep View Post

If it was your business or home that was vandalised wouldn't you be or feel like a victim?
Not in a 'fingered by Stuart Hall' way, no.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 8:06 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

Originally Posted by saudiflares View Post
Not in a 'fingered by Stuart Hall' way, no.
You're comparing apples with oranges.
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 10:04 am
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Default Re: Surveyor gets 3 1/2 years for Graffiti!!!

I'm with Saudiflares on this one.

Graffitti is a part of British culture and adds a dirty charm to our cities. While it is illegal it should not ever carry a prison sentence. Ordered to clean up would be much more fitting.

The disparity in prison tarriffs for different sorts of crime is apalling and while we might be comparing apples and oranges it is still ridiculous that Hall only got 15 months. I'm fuming at the blase attitude the british legal system has to sexually motivated crime.

Oh and I don't give a flying **** how old he is or how hard it will be for him, I hope he ****ing rots.
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