sherri

WakeUp

Norm - I wasn't trying to tell you anything, you asked me to elaborate on my comment about GWB which I did under sufferance.

WakeUp

You can if you know where to go, oh hang on you meant crack cocaine.....sorry

Norm_uk

Good response.

I think if we define terrorism this way almost any armed group on the planet is a prime candidate. I was thinking more of non-official groups who deliberately target civilians to achieve their aims rather than defined military structures since by the definition you give every conflict is terrorism which I don't think it true (war is terrifying yes, but not always terrorism).

I don't think the media really gives us the full picture on Israel, which isn't a perfect state of course. I do feel it's 'better' than all of it's neighbours and more trustworthy too. After seeing things like the Pallywood documentaries I was forced to re-examine my stance on the Palestinians too - there's a huge media spin about the entire conflict which is covering the basic fact that the Arab states could have ended it 50 years ago by absorbing Arab refugees and recognising Israel (which already has many Arab citizens). Population exchange has worked in the case of the Eastern European Germans for example.

I don't think native Europeans and those who have 'gone local' are after isolation and inbreeding (well, except in Alabama ) in a global world. I hold similar sentiments and would be aghast at the prospect of everyone living like that (but I suppose that's their choice). There are of course, truly racist people in every tribe but I feel they are a minority (and what is called racism today in Europe often is not anyway). I only advocate a system where we don't give passports to people who are not demonstrating cultural conversion and hold similar views - visit and work visas for everyone else, treated as guests with honour and hospitality until they 'convert' or go home in peace and friendship. I see the current and past, unbridled immigration system as a threat to native culture and identity, already under assault to the point where we have to go looking for examples of British culture on these forums despite most of us being born there

Many people share my views, people of different colours not just the native pedigrees...people who see this as the only way we can avoid more inter-ethnic conflict within countries in the future which only further enable nutters like the Norwegian gunman.

N.

UKCityGent

Hey N,

Im not unhappy - No situation or person dictates to me how i feel - I understand myself and am very confident of my abilities so do not allow a situation to control me. If I did that i would have departed this life a long time ago !

There is a difference between not liking a religion and almost pure hatred of it - your messages seem to display an uncontrollable anger of it - almost as if you cannot control something. Let it out - be at peace with yourself.

This hatred permanates to any conversation - judging by a quick flick thru most of the threads you seem to be able to twist and turn anything into religion and then go bashing into Islam - which on your admission you have no educated (via a recognised path) experience on. Just as you can make that assumption - then if anyone reading your threads and may be led fairly confidently to assume your a racist (not that I am calling you a racist).

I believe your source for the 15+K people killed by acts of terrorism would probably be a right wing site which has its own agenda, is this something you read often ?

What else does this site offer - does it seek to understand and resolve the issue or does it call a whole religion of 1.5B people to be treated as 2nd class citizens or who should be removed from the West etc ?

Have a good day and remember to relax, smile and breathe

sherri

Now we are on the same page . A first-rate response, a rare moment when you have not actually pestered me and/or transformed a debate that continues to rumble on.

Thanks Norm

Norm_uk

If you think I am uncontrollably angry at religion, and Islam in particular you're either not reading my posts very well or I'm not posting very clearly. I think it's the former as most people, even the people who disagree with me haven't accused me uncontrollable anger - just an obsession with religious polemics and a penchant for long posts...some of which is true

Of course you're calling me a racist by suggesting I join or am sympathetic to the BNP. Despite the fact that Islam and Muslims are not a race I might add.

You've already gone down the path of trying to silence criticism by effectively stating no one is allowed to say anything about Islam unless they are an Islamic scholar or are educated by one. In essence - join the system before commenting on it or your comments are invalid. It's a good thing there are wiser and more educated men than me and you who have studied Islam extensively and come away with criticisms - this has been going on since the early days of Islam, some of it's earliest critics were Persians and even Arabs were they not? Muhammad al Warraq, Ibn al-Rawandi, Al-Ma'arri, Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi.

The fact is terms like "Islamophobia" and "anti-Muslim bigotry" are often used in response to legitimate criticism of fundamentalist Islam and problems within Muslim culture, which shows how fragile the system is and how much Muslims dislike criticism from outside. It also makes it harder to spot the really crazed people who are truly full of hate when anyone who doesn't paint Islam in a positive light is a 'hater'.

Most sites have their own agenda. I'm not usually dumb enough to ignore that basic fact. Let me quote one of the posts from a typical right wing site that I tend to read regarding the Norwegian shootings and the media response (on topic for this thread I think):

"It is irresponsible in this situation to try to expand his list of victims even further, from hundreds to hundreds of millions of people, by exploiting this atrocity to shut down vital political debates about immigration, Multiculturalism, or Islam in multiple countries. It cannot be allowed to happen.

That monster has already executed many people. He should not be allowed to execute political freedom in the Western world as well." - Fjordman, Gates of Vienna blog.

You can almost feel the thuggish racism in these words can't you? Obviously another potential bomber in the making.

You too - everyone should learn to relax more.

N.

UKCityGent

Its very unhealthy obession with hunting Islam - anything thats unhealthy usually has a root cause.

Your reading of the Gates of Vienna site perhaps reveal your tendencies -
If Fjordman is not Mr. Breivik, they certainly had pretty similar views and, it appears, the main difference between them is that Fjordman, seeing himself as some sort of intellectual, has no interest in actually killing any one - just implicitly inciting others to do so. I believe that this is also the site that promotes the EDL (well known English "party" with Nazis tendencies) - hence my initial thought that perhaps you should move to the BNP sites where your writings would be more appreciate.

If your a racist admit it and move on, but dont try to be pretend to be a libertarian "..Libertarians defend each person's right to life, liberty, and property.." - from 95% of your posts these seem to be attacking one source of species/religion - consistently.

The reason why i wanted to know your experience of Islam was to understand what experience you do have (apart the almighty google). Since you have limited, I assume, exposure to Islam Im wondering to see your thought processes. Every religion has heretics - that is a personal opinion but again that is from thinkers who were/converted muslims and understand the principles - but in their way found a short-fall with their understanding and the principles.

UK

captainflack

I saw figures recently that suggested that around 6% of terror incidents in the US were down to islamic extremists, and in Europe it was less than 1%.

Look at what ETA and their ilk have been doing in spain, and what Irish republicans are still up to in Northern Ireland. Car bombs, shootings, etc.

But let's not have the facts get in the way of prejudices.

The thought of being killed by foreign darkies is much more outrageous than being killed by people who look roughly like me.

That's pretty much what it comes down to isn't it....?

Norm_uk

It's a very unhealthy obsession with hunting individuals you have little knowledge of who engage in polemics and offend your religious sensibilities. It usually has a root cause in not wanting to debate any political view you disagree with and thus they seek ways to make it personal, looking for ways to discredit the person, often because of a firm conviction that some things (usually the ideas or beliefs they hold dear) are above criticism.

I've read Das Capital, Mein Kampf, Mao's Little Red book and Lord of the Rings too...does this mean I have Communist, Nazi leanings with an urge to live in Middle Earth to boot? Does everyone who reads anything online subscribes to it without question?

You're very good at keeping things on the personal and completely avoiding anything beyond that. I like how you have built a complete profile of me based on reading probably 20 posts on a forum you've been a member of for

Also, I've been in this forum since 2004. Who exactly do you think you are to tell me where my views will be appreciated?

Do you think you could be more condescending? "If your a racist admit it and move on" What is that supposed to mean?

Islam isn't a race. Muslim's are not a race...in fact Muslims come from pretty much every race there is. It's a racial diverse religion on the whole. I think you should start accepting this fact and get over it. No ideas are above criticism...mine included. And it's possible to question them without name calling or personal attacks.

I can only assume you're insinuating I'm a racist because you simply want to discredit me as you believe Islam is above criticism from everyone except those who meet your standard of study under an Iman/sheikh.

Also, you have not read 95% of my posts - stop being silly.
You haven't bothered to respond to any points I made that might have brought this into a debate or at least an agreement to disagree. My political views are not on trial here so either respond to the subject in question or stop breaking forum rules by going after the messenger instead of the message.

N.

UKCityGent

I have heard the 6% figure as well (for US only). The other thing to consider with stats is what defines the word "Terrorist" as well (legal rather than political!) and its basic flaw (for example you could consider an vehicle accident as a form of terrorism (based on the US defination))

Meow

I've only just looked at the bored (sic) today as I am getting heartily tired of the twisted attacks and comments of so many posters, many of whom appear to be apologists for half-baked ideas and out-dated religious nonsense.

Why is it that so many apparently intelligent adults cannot discuss topics without throwing around insults if someone holds a different point of view or does not agree with them? I really wish some of you would take a look at yourselves and try and respond in a decent manner.

Meow

Despite what many Americans may think, the United States is not the whole world...

Norm_uk

I'd concur with that. For those who actually read what I type beyond the unpleasant polemics and my personal opinions you'll see I've mentioned several times Muslim extremists are mostly killing other Muslims. Westerners are actually low on the list of victims in terms of numbers (911 excluded).
OK I'm looking at them. Shall I also look at FARC rebels, Maoist insurgents and other little groups who deliberately target civillians to cause maximum terror?

The only thing separating all these groups is their ideologies or what they are after. Their methods are the same as are their levels of insanity.

You've not read what I said about prejudice vs judging have you?
Am not sure what your point is here. Terrorists come in all colours and the last think I'd worry about while being blown up is how much sunlight the murderers ancestors had. There's been a number of white converts to Islam signing up for jihadist causes lately, we just had a blonde Norwegian go on a killing spree, Tim McVey wasn't very brown either.

Perhaps you also think I am one of those people who is afraid of brown skinned people?...like my son, my dad, his brothers, my ex-wife, my sisters...me etc

N.

UKCityGent

Im not trying to discredit you – im just trying to understand where you are coming from. I am not trying to hunt you in any way or shape.

The true definition of racism under EU regulations includes race, colour, creed and religion or belief. I have not checked out the UN definition. Your arguments usually include deformation of either Muslims or Islam. If you had the same things about Israel or Jews I would come to the same conclusion. If you had said the same things about Christians or Anglo-Saxons I would come to the same conclusion.

I recommended the democracy forum as they have similar beliefs as yourself on Muslims and Islam.

I apologise if you thought I was attacking on a personal level – this is the bad thing about text on a screen – people can perceive and read into things which are not said. As I have said before the reason why I asked you about your standard of study was to try and understand what you knew of Muslims and Islam and how people can perceive your writings as racism.

In regards to the Muslim/Islam/Terrorism thang perhaps people need to take a step back and view the trees/forest scenario:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

I believe I have answered of your points raised against me please accept my apologises if I have missed something out.

If we are to take statistics the total death toll in Afghanistan since the US invasion: ca. 500,000+ The total death toll in Iraq since the US occupation: 1,2M people (USA “do not keep track on bodies”) is to be believed I would propose that America and hence Christians are the main crusaders. Does 15,000 deaths that you attribute to Muslim terrorists equate to 2M muslims ? Perhaps if more people knew the truth and can see it in a cold light of day there would notice the “enemy” is closer than they think – rather than some sandpit full of a few yokels with black gold.

I have not broken any forum rule – perhaps you need to review them:

“Without limiting the foregoing, the following behaviors are strictly prohibited:
• Strong, vulgar, obscene or otherwise harmful language,
• Racially, ethnically or otherwise, objectionable language,
• Harassing, intimidating, stalking or threatening other community members,
• Libelous, defamatory or otherwise tortuous language,
• Online vandalism,
• Impersonation of another person,..”

I believe that some if not a many of your posts may belong in the above categories (if perception is to be used.)