Bahtatboy

Why not? (I agree with you totally, but I frequently have the same argument with one of my sons, and the riposte that his single action is irrelevant is difficult to refute. And he's having none of the justification bit: if his single action is irrelevant, then that in itself is his justification. We go round in circles until my wife stops us coming to blows.)

scrubbedexpat141

But everyone won't. 99% of people are inherently lazy whether they choose to admit it or not. To buy something ethically positive generally takes more effort. The vast majority just won't do it.

Not buying one and thinking it actually makes a difference is just not buying one to serve your own ego. As a collective it would, as you say, make the difference but organising that collective I believe it nigh on impossible. It's purely theoretical too.

It's not a great attitude to have but at least it's realistic.

Boomhauer

You could always tell him that a single vote is irrelevant too, but does that mean people not vote at all.

Ofcourse at some point after he has grown disillusioned with the whole democrasy/political process, he will come back and say that voting is worthless because if voting could change anything, it would have been outlawed long ago.

Meow

My argument is that he has a responsibility to do right by others with less privilege and that to do otherwise is selfish. We live in societies and no matter how involved we feel, we have a collective responsibility to do right by others.

There examples in recent history how people's actions have changed things, but my brain is on a go slow today and google is freezing on me.

Bahtatboy

My son.

scrubbedexpat141

It is tough because you clearly understand my / your son's argument and I certainly (probably along with your son) understand your point.

Still, could go round and round forever, happy to do so over a pint?

Bahtatboy

"I agree. But my doing the right thing isn't going to make any difference. If nobody else does the right thing, then my doing the right thing has no impact. If the majority of people do the right thing, then my doing the right thing doesn't make any difference either."

By which time I've usually headed for the Port bottle...

Bahtatboy

Sounds like a plan. Need to leave it till after 6th Sep. Just a select gathering, or shall I try to arrange a BE Dubai get-together and let the riff-raff in?

scrubbedexpat141

Well...now you've mentioned it we could do an all-in or we could be crafty bastards and PM around the shop, some quick mass emails and invite only those worth of our time?

Bahtatboy

Be a small gathering...

Meow

Does he not get the concept of doing the right thing, simply because it is the right thing to do?

scrubbedexpat141

Yeah.

Probably wouldn't include me.

Bahtatboy

"Why is it the right thing if it doesn't make a difference?"

Meow

Doing the right thing isn't necessarily about making a difference. That's an amazingly selfish attitude.

Someone trips over in front of you and you help them up. It won't make a difference if you don't, but it's the right thing to do.

All sorts of things don't make a tangible difference in life, but we do them becuse it's the right thing to do. It's called consideration for others. It takes one person to start a charity, a movement or to spread awareness. Refusing to accept that is attempting to absolve yourself of the basic responsibilites that we all have. It's called humanity.

That people don't see that disappoints me greatly.

Bahtatboy

My response was in quotation marks, indicating it was / would have been my son's response. I always switch stuff off, as well as washing out my milk bottles.

Anyway: "But if someone falls down in front of me, of course I'd help them up, because it makes a difference. Just me switching off a light doesn't make a difference, because as I said before if nobody else does it just my doing it doesn't make a difference, and if everyone's doing it then, again, just my doing doesn't make a difference. I'm ready to see and agree with your point of view, but you haven't given me a logical reason why my switching off the lights / voting / not downloading pirated movies makes a difference. Please explain, and stop drinking so much Port. Oh, and WHY is it the right thing if it doesn't make a difference?"