The Saville Case - who's next
Oct 29th 2012, 6:51 am
#16
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
Why? Do you have any factual basis for that or is it a gut reaction to him personally because he's a bit effeminate? No danger of a witch hunt here then, eh?
As I recall, the previous accusations against Kelly were thoroughly discredited. He had my sympathy because he was a pretty easy target. Any apparently gay/effeminate man in public life has always been particularly vulnerable to random accusations of kiddy fiddling because of deep-seated prejudices.
And the "no smoke without fire" comment that followed yours only emphasises the danger of this becoming a mindless witch hunt and ruining the lives of innocent people.
As I recall, the previous accusations against Kelly were thoroughly discredited. He had my sympathy because he was a pretty easy target. Any apparently gay/effeminate man in public life has always been particularly vulnerable to random accusations of kiddy fiddling because of deep-seated prejudices.
And the "no smoke without fire" comment that followed yours only emphasises the danger of this becoming a mindless witch hunt and ruining the lives of innocent people.
Oct 29th 2012, 7:03 am
#17
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
I agree he is a twat but it is a totally different and far more serious thing to suggest he (or anybody else) is a nonce with no evidence....
Oct 29th 2012, 7:04 am
#18
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
There are so many from that time what could be implicated (I'm not saying guilty, but aware/known):
Cheggers: 25-1 Highly unlikely
Reid: 20-1 Mike Reid DJ? No - far too dull for anything like that & takes himself too seriously
Kelly: evens (no smoke without fire) No
Tarrent: 16-3 No - a flirt but nothing really dodgy
Corbett: evens (always had his hand up Sue and wasn't shy with Sooty)
Wilmot: 100-1 (outsider)
Jim Davidson: 15-1 (has come forward saying the witch hunt has to stop - sign of guilt) Again a flirt & a bit of a letch but never with underage girls
Edmunds: never trust a man with a beard.
Rantzen has all the answers here in my view. She needs to start grassing.
Cheggers: 25-1 Highly unlikely
Reid: 20-1 Mike Reid DJ? No - far too dull for anything like that & takes himself too seriously
Kelly: evens (no smoke without fire) No
Tarrent: 16-3 No - a flirt but nothing really dodgy
Corbett: evens (always had his hand up Sue and wasn't shy with Sooty)
Wilmot: 100-1 (outsider)
Jim Davidson: 15-1 (has come forward saying the witch hunt has to stop - sign of guilt) Again a flirt & a bit of a letch but never with underage girls
Edmunds: never trust a man with a beard.
Rantzen has all the answers here in my view. She needs to start grassing.
Whilst misbehaving with underage girls, and boys, is very wrong, I am old enough to remember when many men thought it was just fine to make inappropriate comments and try and touch women. Fortunately I don't suffer fools and dealt with them all (a work tribunal was involved in one case), but not everyone is as tough and there was a time when it was almost the norm to fend off certain men. I am really glad times have changed.
Oct 29th 2012, 7:10 am
#19
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
My comments above, based on a little knowledge of some of them. Someone mentioned Timmy Mallet - 'fraid not. He may be a twat, but is a nice bloke and not a kiddly fiddler.
Whilst misbehaving with underage girls, and boys, is very wrong, I am old enough to remember when many men thought it was just fine to make inappropriate comments and try and touch women. Fortunately I don't suffer fools and dealt with them all (a work tribunal was involved in one case), but not everyone is as tough and there was a time when it was almost the norm to fend off certain men. I am really glad times have changed.
Whilst misbehaving with underage girls, and boys, is very wrong, I am old enough to remember when many men thought it was just fine to make inappropriate comments and try and touch women. Fortunately I don't suffer fools and dealt with them all (a work tribunal was involved in one case), but not everyone is as tough and there was a time when it was almost the norm to fend off certain men. I am really glad times have changed.
Oct 29th 2012, 7:13 am
#20
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
I only watched one episode of that, but there certainly was a time when many men thought it was genuinely okay to comment on women, their looks, sex lives, abilities etc in a way that would be quite unacceptable today. It's wasn't about humour, it was totally sexist and demeaning.
Oct 29th 2012, 7:22 am
#21
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
I only watched one episode of that, but there certainly was a time when many men thought it was genuinely okay to comment on women, their looks, sex lives, abilities etc in a way that would be quite unacceptable today. It's wasn't about humour, it was totally sexist and demeaning.
Oct 29th 2012, 7:24 am
#22
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Oct 29th 2012, 7:40 am
#23
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
If I say "at least things have changed" I will face a barrage of examples of discrimination proving me otherwise.
Also, I don't think things really have changed. Some women will just moan about it, some will get on with it and work hard and get good jobs and earn good money and be senior (like my Mummy), some will never get where they could / should because they don't 'fit' - I assume sometimes this is because they are a woman.
Who knows.
I tried diplomacy and you're right, I'm not convinced.
Also, I don't think things really have changed. Some women will just moan about it, some will get on with it and work hard and get good jobs and earn good money and be senior (like my Mummy), some will never get where they could / should because they don't 'fit' - I assume sometimes this is because they are a woman.
Who knows.
I tried diplomacy and you're right, I'm not convinced.
Oct 29th 2012, 7:44 am
#24
hmmmm...nice
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
the only thing that has changed is that most men realise it's not done to say or do this stuff as it's no longer politically correct...it's only a superficial change
Oct 29th 2012, 7:47 am
#25
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Oct 29th 2012, 7:54 am
#26
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
Are you saying that you are all still sexist pigs? 
I'm happier that I don't hear so much of that sort of 'carry on' style nonsense and that I don't have to fend off wandering hands. Mind you most only ever tried it once...
I'm happier that I don't hear so much of that sort of 'carry on' style nonsense and that I don't have to fend off wandering hands. Mind you most only ever tried it once...
Oct 29th 2012, 7:56 am
#27
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
If I say "at least things have changed" I will face a barrage of examples of discrimination proving me otherwise.
Also, I don't think things really have changed. Some women will just moan about it, some will get on with it and work hard and get good jobs and earn good money and be senior (like my Mummy), some will never get where they could / should because they don't 'fit' - I assume sometimes this is because they are a woman.
Who knows.
I tried diplomacy and you're right, I'm not convinced.
Also, I don't think things really have changed. Some women will just moan about it, some will get on with it and work hard and get good jobs and earn good money and be senior (like my Mummy), some will never get where they could / should because they don't 'fit' - I assume sometimes this is because they are a woman.
Who knows.
I tried diplomacy and you're right, I'm not convinced.
Any man who thinks a woman is generally inferior or gagging for it from any old bloke is a dinosaur.
Oct 29th 2012, 8:16 am
#29
Hit 16's
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
Yep.
From a workplace perspective, in all the companies I've worked for (and in relatively tough industries) I've never actually experienced any woman being held back because of her gender. That's either specifically in respect of a particular woman, or generally in respect of all women.
There are three exceptions to that:
First, some thirty years ago in the professional side of the construction industry which operated like an old boys' club.
Second, in Japan where the entire culture didn't permit women to attain managerial positions.
Third, idiots (of both genders).
Apart from those first two exceptions, the banter which goes on is no more than that. And I've had sexual banter with female colleagues of the same hue as that with male colleagues. The idiots pose a problem—the ones who don't know where the boundary lies, but I've encountered those of both genders and they've been despised equally by all.
From a workplace perspective, in all the companies I've worked for (and in relatively tough industries) I've never actually experienced any woman being held back because of her gender. That's either specifically in respect of a particular woman, or generally in respect of all women.
There are three exceptions to that:
First, some thirty years ago in the professional side of the construction industry which operated like an old boys' club.
Second, in Japan where the entire culture didn't permit women to attain managerial positions.
Third, idiots (of both genders).
Apart from those first two exceptions, the banter which goes on is no more than that. And I've had sexual banter with female colleagues of the same hue as that with male colleagues. The idiots pose a problem—the ones who don't know where the boundary lies, but I've encountered those of both genders and they've been despised equally by all.
Oct 29th 2012, 8:23 am
#30
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Re: The Saville Case - who's next
I think a lot of attitudes have changed and most of a younger generation of men don't think a woman should stay in the home. Many countries also have laws preventing unfairness, which has helped.
Any man who thinks a woman is generally inferior or gagging for it from any old bloke is a dinosaur.
Any man who thinks a woman is generally inferior or gagging for it from any old bloke is a dinosaur.