Originally Posted by Bahtatboy

What about all the poor bastards who were born more than 1,434 years ago, and therefore bereft of such revelations? Or other poor bastards who are born into a strict religion which forbids them from converting to Islam? They're doomed by circumstances, not their own choices. Hamdulilah?

Originally Posted by redShark

Because you are repeating the same question that I have already answered earlier. I also gave you an example of the rain phenomenon which you chose not to comment on suggesting to me that you don’t have any answer. I, however, am going to be generous with you and will follow your line of argument that we need a scientific prof of God. What you really are asking for is a scientific experiment that allows you to communicate directly with the creator, i.e a measuring device that can detect his presence and measure him up, just like scientists do with the subatomic world. You will not find him in this way, I am afraid, because there is an error in this approach which is to do with the initial assumption. You’ve made the assumption that the creator exists in the physical world, when he actually does not. However, there is another line of argument quit similar to what you want but this time it is viable. In science we may not necessarily be able to reach a certain fact in the tangible way but we may be able to do so mathematically. In other words, since mathematics is hailed as the mother of all sciences, through which we can understand the world in a logical way, can mathematics help us to know who the creator is? The answer is yes, because the creator has left in this physical world a mathematical model that logically represents him, it is the numeral infinity, a model that represents the creator’s attribute mathematically . This numeral infinity is a well known figure to scientists that appears regularly in their formulas. So when I say to you that the creator is infinite in everything I have a mathematical model to back me up.

This is yet another prof to the Quranic claim that the creator has left the humans with no excuse to disbelieve in him

Originally Posted by redShark

Good point (not your common trait though). According to Quran, revelations started with the first appearance of the human being on earth, Adam himself. Quran goes on to say that not a single human community existed on earth that was left without a revelation through prophets. You can deduce from this idea that the vast majorty of religions that existed in the past and continued to the present are actually offshoots from the true religions that were revealed from the creator. The late followers, however, were the ones who distorted them and disfigured their true message. Christanity is one good example.

Originally Posted by redShark

Because you are repeating the same question that I have already answered earlier. I also gave you an example of the rain phenomenon which you chose not to comment on suggesting to me that you don’t have any answer. I, however, am going to be generous with you and will follow your line of argument that we need a scientific prof of God. What you really are asking for is a scientific experiment that allows you to communicate directly with the creator, i.e a measuring device that can detect his presence and measure him up, just like scientists do with the subatomic world. You will not find him in this way, I am afraid, because there is an error in this approach which is to do with the initial assumption. You’ve made the assumption that the creator exists in the physical world, when he actually does not. However, there is another line of argument quit similar to what you want but this time it is viable. In science we may not necessarily be able to reach a certain fact in the tangible way but we may be able to do so mathematically. In other words, since mathematics is hailed as the mother of all sciences, through which we can understand the world in a logical way, can mathematics help us to know who the creator is? The answer is yes, because the creator has left in this physical world a mathematical model that logically represents him, it is the numeral infinity, a model that represents the creator’s attribute mathematically . This numeral infinity is a well known figure to scientists that appears regularly in their formulas. So when I say to you that the creator is infinite in everything I have a mathematical model to back me up.

This is yet another prof to the Quranic claim that the creator has left the humans with no excuse to disbelieve in him

Originally Posted by Boomhauer

Red
You have not answered and continue to avoid answering.

Your difficulty in understanding me stems from your Christian background where there exists a belief in the miraculous power of healing through Christ and what have you, something you normally see in all those stage shows in the evangelical churches.

To reiterate, in a simple and direct manner:

1) You believe in an Almighty supernatural being (Allah) that watches over people.

2) This supernatural being (Allah) has directly intervened in human society . This being has also communicated directly with persons called Prophets, with Muhammed being the last Prophet.

Sure he interne in the human socity but not according to your wish, because your wish is this life should be haven and that is not reality.

3) So when I asked you why this Allah/Being did not intervene to safeguard his worshippers from the virus, you retorted that Islam did not say the laws of Physics does not apply on earth and as you put it above, the creator does not exsis in the physical world.

Again, sure he intervened, that’s why some were cured, others were not because their time on earth has expired so this virus was the reason for them to go to a BETER life. For others the virus was a punishement for some bad deed they’d done, etc., etc.

4) So then I pointed out that what you claim in point # 3 is directly contradicted by point # 2. This Allah has directly intervened in human society, so your claim about laws of physics dictating life in this world is contradicted.

You intentionally keep avoiding trying to answer point # 4. I have no choice but to surmise that you have no answer because there simply is no way to reconcile the contradictory claims you make.