Question for the SNPers on here
May 14th 2015, 9:55 am
#16
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Re: Question for the SNPers on here
exactly.
I'm quite a snob at heart but I cant help but think maybe its time for the conventions and expectations of parliament to die out. i'd keep the no selfie convention though
This self appointed role of our betters ruling us is a bit outdated now and people deciding policy that affects millions who have no idea how the millions live is past its time.
a bit more decorum wouldn't hurt though. would it?
I'm quite a snob at heart but I cant help but think maybe its time for the conventions and expectations of parliament to die out. i'd keep the no selfie convention though
This self appointed role of our betters ruling us is a bit outdated now and people deciding policy that affects millions who have no idea how the millions live is past its time.
a bit more decorum wouldn't hurt though. would it?
Still, extra perspective instead of the usual fat, grey haired drunk is most welcome.
May 17th 2015, 12:29 pm
#22
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Re: Question for the SNPers on here
I know polls are as reliable or popular as a free bag of horse shit but it was still interesting:
UK GENERAL ELECTION 2020: Breakdown of todays YOUGOV Poll
For those of you who can't be bothered:
How do you consider yourself politically?
Scotland (England&Wales)
Left 50% (27%)
Centre 15% (19%)
Right 18% (31%)
DK 17% (23%)
So Scotland is a leftist country while England is centre-centre right.
Poor old Labour. Too right wing for Scotland and too left wing for England.
UK GENERAL ELECTION 2020: Breakdown of todays YOUGOV Poll
For those of you who can't be bothered:
How do you consider yourself politically?
Scotland (England&Wales)
Left 50% (27%)
Centre 15% (19%)
Right 18% (31%)
DK 17% (23%)
So Scotland is a leftist country while England is centre-centre right.
Poor old Labour. Too right wing for Scotland and too left wing for England.
May 17th 2015, 1:23 pm
#23
**** it we'll do it live
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 7,892
Re: Question for the SNPers on here
I know polls are as reliable or popular as a free bag of horse shit but it was still interesting:
UK GENERAL ELECTION 2020: Breakdown of todays YOUGOV Poll
For those of you who can't be bothered:
How do you consider yourself politically?
Scotland (England&Wales)
Left 50% (27%)
Centre 15% (19%)
Right 18% (31%)
DK 17% (23%)
So Scotland is a leftist country while England is centre-centre right.
Poor old Labour. Too right wing for Scotland and too left wing for England.
UK GENERAL ELECTION 2020: Breakdown of todays YOUGOV Poll
For those of you who can't be bothered:
How do you consider yourself politically?
Scotland (England&Wales)
Left 50% (27%)
Centre 15% (19%)
Right 18% (31%)
DK 17% (23%)
So Scotland is a leftist country while England is centre-centre right.
Poor old Labour. Too right wing for Scotland and too left wing for England.
Scotland is definitely left leaning though
May 17th 2015, 4:24 pm
#24
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Re: Question for the SNPers on here
Eh. There's more on the right than the left. 4% over many people adds up to a nice number. It's still a decent margin.
The point was, as I made clear, England is a centre - centre right country. It is not a right country, not like the US can be. But the centre-centre right has a lock on English politics today. You add the 31% right to 19% centre, what do you get? The same % who voted Tory and UKIP in last week's election.
Whoever wins the centre wins England and that was why Blair had to move Labour decisively towards the centre and made public promises about sticking to Tory spending programmes for the first few years of his government, and there was all this talk about New Labour being tory lite. Labour drifted leftwards in the election and was badly punished by it. It means those on the left saying they lost the election because Labour wasn't leftwing enough are flat out wrong.
But Scotland is a different story. That a full 50% identifies as left in contrast to 27% of England&Wales means Scottish politics will always be dominated by the left. There will be no right or even slightly centre-right government in Scotland.
That's why Labour is in a very bad shape. They lost Scotland because they weren't leftwing enough, but by moving left they lost England. They're in purgatory for a long time to come.
s
The point was, as I made clear, England is a centre - centre right country. It is not a right country, not like the US can be. But the centre-centre right has a lock on English politics today. You add the 31% right to 19% centre, what do you get? The same % who voted Tory and UKIP in last week's election.
Whoever wins the centre wins England and that was why Blair had to move Labour decisively towards the centre and made public promises about sticking to Tory spending programmes for the first few years of his government, and there was all this talk about New Labour being tory lite. Labour drifted leftwards in the election and was badly punished by it. It means those on the left saying they lost the election because Labour wasn't leftwing enough are flat out wrong.
But Scotland is a different story. That a full 50% identifies as left in contrast to 27% of England&Wales means Scottish politics will always be dominated by the left. There will be no right or even slightly centre-right government in Scotland.
That's why Labour is in a very bad shape. They lost Scotland because they weren't leftwing enough, but by moving left they lost England. They're in purgatory for a long time to come.
s
May 17th 2015, 4:39 pm
#25
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Re: Question for the SNPers on here
Or it could be that the majority in England are not right, but centre/centre left?
May 17th 2015, 5:18 pm
#26
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Re: Question for the SNPers on here
The centre holds the country.
England is not a left country. There is a sizable left minority but it remains a distinct minority. Blair had to move Labour so far to the centre in order to win and his government was never a left government in any meaningful sense of the word. New Labour, a.k.a. tory-lite as they were derisively called by the left, when combined with Thatcher and Major's government, totaled 30 years of centre-centre right governments before the coalition came along. The Tories were banished to the wilderness for 13 years not because they were perceived as too right wing but because New Labour so successfully claimed the centre by promising to be nicer versions of the Tories and even sticking to Tory spending programmes.
Add five years of the coalition and now at least five years of Tory role, that's 40 years of centre- centre right governments.
The left in England, which is a sizable minority as I pointed out, is much more left than the right in England is right. Their voting influence is now too fragmented to have meaningful power outside a handful of councils.
But Scotland is different. When 50% of your population identifies as left, as opposed to a quarter in England, it's a country with a very different approach to government expectations.
England is not a left country. There is a sizable left minority but it remains a distinct minority. Blair had to move Labour so far to the centre in order to win and his government was never a left government in any meaningful sense of the word. New Labour, a.k.a. tory-lite as they were derisively called by the left, when combined with Thatcher and Major's government, totaled 30 years of centre-centre right governments before the coalition came along. The Tories were banished to the wilderness for 13 years not because they were perceived as too right wing but because New Labour so successfully claimed the centre by promising to be nicer versions of the Tories and even sticking to Tory spending programmes.
Add five years of the coalition and now at least five years of Tory role, that's 40 years of centre- centre right governments.
The left in England, which is a sizable minority as I pointed out, is much more left than the right in England is right. Their voting influence is now too fragmented to have meaningful power outside a handful of councils.
But Scotland is different. When 50% of your population identifies as left, as opposed to a quarter in England, it's a country with a very different approach to government expectations.
May 17th 2015, 6:26 pm
#27
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Re: Question for the SNPers on here
The centre holds the country.
England is not a left country. There is a sizable left minority but it remains a distinct minority. Blair had to move Labour so far to the centre in order to win and his government was never a left government in any meaningful sense of the word. New Labour, a.k.a. tory-lite as they were derisively called by the left, when combined with Thatcher and Major's government, totaled 30 years of centre-centre right governments before the coalition came along. The Tories were banished to the wilderness for 13 years not because they were perceived as too right wing but because New Labour so successfully claimed the centre by promising to be nicer versions of the Tories and even sticking to Tory spending programmes.
Add five years of the coalition and now at least five years of Tory role, that's 40 years of centre- centre right governments.
The left in England, which is a sizable minority as I pointed out, is much more left than the right in England is right. Their voting influence is now too fragmented to have meaningful power outside a handful of councils.
But Scotland is different. When 50% of your population identifies as left, as opposed to a quarter in England, it's a country with a very different approach to government expectations.
England is not a left country. There is a sizable left minority but it remains a distinct minority. Blair had to move Labour so far to the centre in order to win and his government was never a left government in any meaningful sense of the word. New Labour, a.k.a. tory-lite as they were derisively called by the left, when combined with Thatcher and Major's government, totaled 30 years of centre-centre right governments before the coalition came along. The Tories were banished to the wilderness for 13 years not because they were perceived as too right wing but because New Labour so successfully claimed the centre by promising to be nicer versions of the Tories and even sticking to Tory spending programmes.
Add five years of the coalition and now at least five years of Tory role, that's 40 years of centre- centre right governments.
The left in England, which is a sizable minority as I pointed out, is much more left than the right in England is right. Their voting influence is now too fragmented to have meaningful power outside a handful of councils.
But Scotland is different. When 50% of your population identifies as left, as opposed to a quarter in England, it's a country with a very different approach to government expectations.
May 18th 2015, 3:38 am
#28
**** it we'll do it live
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 7,892
Re: Question for the SNPers on here
Eh. There's more on the right than the left. 4% over many people adds up to a nice number. It's still a decent margin.
The point was, as I made clear, England is a centre - centre right country. It is not a right country, not like the US can be. But the centre-centre right has a lock on English politics today. You add the 31% right to 19% centre, what do you get? The same % who voted Tory and UKIP in last week's election.
Whoever wins the centre wins England and that was why Blair had to move Labour decisively towards the centre and made public promises about sticking to Tory spending programmes for the first few years of his government, and there was all this talk about New Labour being tory lite. Labour drifted leftwards in the election and was badly punished by it. It means those on the left saying they lost the election because Labour wasn't leftwing enough are flat out wrong.
But Scotland is a different story. That a full 50% identifies as left in contrast to 27% of England&Wales means Scottish politics will always be dominated by the left. There will be no right or even slightly centre-right government in Scotland.
That's why Labour is in a very bad shape. They lost Scotland because they weren't leftwing enough, but by moving left they lost England. They're in purgatory for a long time to come.
s
The point was, as I made clear, England is a centre - centre right country. It is not a right country, not like the US can be. But the centre-centre right has a lock on English politics today. You add the 31% right to 19% centre, what do you get? The same % who voted Tory and UKIP in last week's election.
Whoever wins the centre wins England and that was why Blair had to move Labour decisively towards the centre and made public promises about sticking to Tory spending programmes for the first few years of his government, and there was all this talk about New Labour being tory lite. Labour drifted leftwards in the election and was badly punished by it. It means those on the left saying they lost the election because Labour wasn't leftwing enough are flat out wrong.
But Scotland is a different story. That a full 50% identifies as left in contrast to 27% of England&Wales means Scottish politics will always be dominated by the left. There will be no right or even slightly centre-right government in Scotland.
That's why Labour is in a very bad shape. They lost Scotland because they weren't leftwing enough, but by moving left they lost England. They're in purgatory for a long time to come.
s
You are also missing the whole point of the labour collapse in Scotland and why the SNP swept Scotland and why despite that 50 left leaning labour are screwed in Scotland next year.
As it stands the Scottish Tory party could take more seats than labour next year.
You also seem to think a 4% diifference is a huge gap. It isn't, it's well within the bounds of a single election issue and hardly a safe or massive right wing majority for the Tories. Ukip have only 1 seat and are currently collapsing internally, whether they are a force in 5 years is yet to be seen so that 19% is very unstable at best.
