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Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Old Jan 4th 2014, 2:43 pm
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by flares View Post
loads a dykes in Riyadh. Nurses most of them
Loads of dykes in East Anglia, too. Tend to be a bit drained, though...
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 2:49 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
I am neither gay nor muslim so it doesn't affect me. This is the mindset you acquire here.

But, the gay scene here is massive. It's a bit more underground. Probably more men than women.

I'm not trying to defend - just trying to educate.
No, I understand, all I seek is to understand what it's like. I think "underground gay scene" is a big part of the problem - I don't fit in that group, and I don't like certain US cities where people are categorised like that either. I like when everyone can join together as one, dance the night away, and two people of the same gender can make out openly if they so wish without any fear of persecution. When one can invite anyone they want - even a Muslim friend - to come join in, even if you know they won't come.

That mindset makes sense, yes, but how did you come to acquire it? And what about the famous words of Martin Niemöller - "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist . . . and there was no one left to speak out for me."

Do you fear that in a country with legally enforced Sharia law, there will be a day there is no one to speak out for you and you find yourself on the wrong side of the law in a foreign country with a legal system so very different to the British legal system you learned growing up? Genuinely curious here.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 3:04 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Originally Posted by markuhde View Post
Yikes, I just don't understand what compels people to move to some of these countries where all the freedoms and liberties they've enjoyed their whole lives are non-existent.

Frankly, it makes even less sense to me than people who do the opposite - come to the western world and make loud declarations about their intent to see "the end of freedom and democracy" within 20 years.

Is there something I'm missing that any amount of money would be worth it to move away from a place that shares your values and go to somewhere where your values are not respected by anyone around you?
As you really didn't help answer the OP's question, but rather wanted to add personal commentary, I've moved a load of posts (starting with this one) as it was detracting from the original thread topic and not at all helpful to the OP of said thread.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 3:05 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Originally Posted by Sue View Post
As you really didn't help answer the OP's question, but rather wanted to add personal commentary, I've moved a load of posts (starting with this one) as it was detracting from the original thread topic and not at all helpful to the OP of said thread.
I apologise, I saw it as connected to the basic theme of tolerance for alcohol and other things outside of local social norms and laws. Sorry about that though, I'll try to be more careful not to derail threads!
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 3:13 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by markuhde View Post
No, I understand, all I seek is to understand what it's like. I think "underground gay scene" is a big part of the problem - I don't fit in that group, and I don't like certain US cities where people are categorised like that either. I like when everyone can join together as one, dance the night away, and two people of the same gender can make out openly if they so wish without any fear of persecution. When one can invite anyone they want - even a Muslim friend - to come join in, even if you know they won't come.
You can invite them and the Muslims will come to the bars. Welcome to the city of sin and contradictions.


That mindset makes sense, yes, but how did you come to acquire it? And what about the famous words of Martin Niemöller - "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist . . . and there was no one left to speak out for me."
I've always had it.


Do you fear that in a country with legally enforced Sharia law, there will be a day there is no one to speak out for you and you find yourself on the wrong side of the law in a foreign country with a legal system so very different to the British legal system you learned growing up? Genuinely curious here.
Of course, and many do step on the wrong side. Like all non-western countries the legal framework is set to ensure that you are always breaking one law or another at any given time. The trick is to be always be humble, nice, none aggressive, polite and to not screw up too much. The laws are only used if you pissed someone off or are generally acting like a twat.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 3:20 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
You can invite them and the Muslims will come to the bars. Welcome to the city of sin and contradictions.

I've always had it.

Of course, and many do step on the wrong side. Like all non-western countries the legal framework is set to ensure that you are always breaking one law or another at any given time. The trick is to be always be humble, nice, none aggressive, polite and to not screw up too much. The laws are only used if you pissed someone off or are generally acting like a twat.
That's good to know, but then what do you make of stories like these?:

http://www.queerty.com/two-lesbians-...ubai-20080902/

http://english.pravda.ru/society/sto...06429-dubai-0/

I mean kissing on the beach or *gasp* drinking orange juice in public during Ramadan? Those hardly sound like anything outside of ordinary behaviour to me.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 4:36 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

How anyone can comment on a culture and region they've never been to and expect to be respected and listened to by people who've been here many many years is beyond me.

You stay with your friends where you are.

I'd rather be here than the States that's for sure.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Originally Posted by Kix View Post
How anyone can comment on a culture and region they've never been to and expect to be respected and listened to by people who've been here many many years is beyond me.

You stay with your friends where you are.

I'd rather be here than the States that's for sure.
How someone can judge someone because they dare to ask questions and try to learn about another culture is beyond me.

How TWO people can refer to lesbians as "dykes" is beyond me.

All I ever asked, and something no one really answered, is - what is there in the UAE that offsets the discrimination, strict alcohol laws, and other laws that make normal behaviour a crime subject to strict punishment.

BTW, anyone who knows me could tell you I am far from being "American" in any sense you mean, I usually identify myself as British-American or occasionally as Irish-American. I sure don't see the US as the best country in the world or anything like that. Because of this, I will not quote US sources to avoid any appearance of bias. Here's a very non-biased, BRITISH, source for my fears and doubts and wonderings why people find it a desirable place to live:

"The UAE is a Muslim country. Laws and customs are very different to those in the UK. You should respect local traditions, customs, laws and religions at all times. There may be serious penalties for doing something that might not be illegal in the UK."

This is from gov.uk's foreign travel advice - https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...-arab-emirates
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 5:06 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Quote from Mark "All I ever asked, and something no one really answered, is - what is there in the UAE that offsets the discrimination, strict alcohol laws, and other laws that make normal behaviour a crime subject to strict punishment."

I can answer that for you.
a. Money
b. certain amount of luxury

Now, that is generally the case. there are of course many other reasons...adventure, weather, opportunity and most likely many more.

Unless you come here and live here, you can't judge.
There is much more to the book than the cover.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 5:11 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Originally Posted by Alexa View Post
I can answer that for you.
a. Money
b. certain amount of luxury

Now, that is generally the case. there are of course many other reasons...adventure, weather, opportunity and most likely many more.

Unless you come here and live here, you can't judge.
There is much more to the book than the cover.
No judgment at all, I promise, just curiosity

Yeah, the weather sure would be nice, I could use a tan!
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 5:35 pm
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by markuhde View Post
No thanks, I'll stay in the land of freedom and democracy and the right to self-expression. And to have a drink with some LGBT friends, and dance.
Freedom and democracy you say? You surely can't be talking about the USA given the limitations imposed in many areas, particularly the bible belt, by adherence to religion.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 5:43 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
Freedom and democracy you say? You surely can't be talking about the USA given the limitations imposed in many areas, particularly the bible belt, by adherence to religion.
No, I'm really not I don't know where I mean, everywhere in the world really seems to want to use their local religion to limit people's free expression.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 5:58 pm
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by markuhde View Post
No, I'm really not I don't know where I mean, everywhere in the world really seems to want to use their local religion to limit people's free expression.
From my brief perusal of this thread, and you'll excuse me for being blunt, it seems from the admission you've just made that you are actually just trolling. yawn!
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 6:02 pm
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Default Re: alcohol to "dry" country

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
From my brief perusal of this thread, and you'll excuse me for being blunt, it seems from the admission you've just made that you are actually just trolling. yawn!
Not at all, I apologise greatly if I come across that way. Nowhere's perfect, but I know if I was in the UAE I'd be scared to death of getting arrested with some of the stories I read of life there, so I was genuinely curious how people live there on an ongoing basis when they fear arrest for an empty wine bottle. It just is such a different world, it's fascinating to me.

The US has it's issues, but there's nowhere an empty wine bottle could get you in prison! That's why I find it interesting that there are things so great there that people are willing to live under those laws to get them.
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Old Jan 4th 2014, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: Personal commentary posts moved from "Alcohol to Dry Country" thread

Hi Mark,

What motivates people is different at different times in their lives, 10 years ago I would have had zero interest in being based in the UAE, bottom line -I am here for the money, riding out an ongoing recession where job prospects in the UK and Europe are few and far between. There are things I love about being here and things I don't, I have travelled more since being here than I have in my entire life and love being able to do so, It really is a great location for travelling to places that from the UK would be exceptional holidays.
The market is strong here, I work for a retailer, which in the Uk the majority of retailers are struggling and it is creatively boring to be based working for a struggling retail market, whereas in the Middle East the market is strong and gives you room to spread your wings. My job satisfaction is very important to em, and I get more opportunities here than I would being based anywhere else at the moment.
When I moved out here just over 4 years I had preconceptions of what it would be like and to be honest I was wrong about pretty much most of it. Yes you can't do certain things but on the whole it really is a pleasant enough place to be. I have lots of good friends here, some straight some gay, they also have a good life here, some single some married, some living in sin, some in gay relationships, yes gay relationships have to be discrete as do I being a single female where relationships outside of marriage are also illegal. But everything goes on but is generally discrete. The money being tax free is my main reason to be here, and I am saving for my long term security- something I value more than partying at this point in my life, but you can also enjoy yourself, it isn't a prison. If you want to stuff a kilo of coke up your nose and have gangbangs on the beach it's probably not the best place ( although if you know the right people it could probably be arranged and i know of some stories not that far from this), but you can have a nice lifestyle here.I came here with the attitude, if I hate it I can go home, I'm still here so it really isn't as bad as you imagine, many see it as offering more than what they have had from their home countries.

Obviously at this time in your life you can not imagine yourself coming here, but the one thing i have learnt is never say never.
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