Pakistan Elections

Old May 12th 2013, 12:44 pm
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Default Pakistan Elections

Words fail me, how can any populace vote in a guy who has been arrested? Nawaz Sharif was tried for "Kidnapping, attempted murder, hijacking and terrorism and corruption" Life Sentence, fined $400,000 and got an additional 14 years for more tax evasion! (Does that mean that once he died he had to remain in a box for a further 14 years before he was buried)?

Impeached in 2008 and the Pakistanis have STILL voted him in.

How corrupt is that country?

Scary when they're alleged to have a nuke....

Unbelievable.
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Old May 12th 2013, 1:18 pm
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well the one who already has been president Mr. 10% aka Zardari has been jailed for 8 years and still has pending cases against him in Switzerland and HE was still voted in.
Techincally both of them werent, but their parties were, but it still defeats the purpose when you vote in a political party whose party head is a known criminal.
Imran Khan was the popular choice and his party did well considering it was their first trial by fire. The next few days will be interesting as the PML-N might have a majority of seats in the the national assembly but not an outright lead so there are going to be a lot of under the table handshakes (when in politics there aren't?) and jostling for powerful positions in the ministries etc
But still considering this was the country's first ever transition from one politically elected government to another, I would say it went better than expected. Democracy takes years and years to settle in and slowly and effectively push out all the filth of bureaucracy and corruption that has been there for the past 50 years. The powerful families and the feudal lords and the king makers all got a nasty reality shock last night when the people spoke by giving over 40 seats to Imran Khan's party (despite there being massive massive reports of vote-rigging). Now all we have to do is to bear out these next 5 years and all he has to do is make sure his ministers deliver on what they promised in whatever capacity they can, and the next elections are his.
Well wishful thinker, I are
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Old May 12th 2013, 1:23 pm
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Disaster. The partition of the Raj did not have a happy ending !
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Old May 12th 2013, 1:24 pm
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Wasn't Imran Khan also arrested and put on trial? I really can't recall. And if he was, it could well have been that the ruling party demanded it, not that he'd necessarily done anything wrong.
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Old May 12th 2013, 1:26 pm
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nope, no case against him that I know of mate
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Old May 12th 2013, 1:32 pm
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Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper View Post
nope, no case against him that I know of mate
This is what I was thinking about - politically motivated I suggest...

On 3 November 2007, Khan was put under house arrest at his father's home hours after president Musharraf declared a state of emergency in Pakistan. Khan had demanded the death penalty for Musharraf after the imposition of emergency rule, which he equated to "committing treason". The next day, on 4 November, Khan escaped and went into peripatetic hiding. He eventually came out of hiding on 14 November to join a student protest at the University of the Punjab. At the rally, Khan was captured by students from the Jamaat-i-Islami political party, who claimed that Khan was an uninvited nuisance at the rally, and they handed him over to the police, who charged him under the Anti-terrorism act for allegedly inciting people to pick up arms, calling for civil disobedience, and for spreading hatred.
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Old May 12th 2013, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Kix View Post
Impeached in 2008 and the Pakistanis have STILL voted him in. How corrupt is that country?
Scary when they're alleged to have a nuke....
Unbelievable.
But I thought the West used zillions of Aid to make sure that he won the election, so why are you complaining?
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Old May 12th 2013, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by mentalist View Post
But I thought the West used zillions of Aid to make sure that he won the election, so why are you complaining?
Who said I was complaining mental one?
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Old May 12th 2013, 3:31 pm
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I have been told by Pakistanis that the country is a feudal society , controlled by a small number of families, the Shariffs are 1 such family.

The people just voted in the same old feudal hierarchy.

Probably stems from:

finding the choices worse
voter intimidation
rigged system
votes of poor people bought with trinkets
Illiteracy

Shariff claimed during campaigning that he would reconsider cooperation with the US. TOTAL BS posturing ofcourse because Pakistan needs Uncle Sam't billions, diplomatic support and fear of US armed force.
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Old May 12th 2013, 3:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper View Post
well the one who already has been president Mr. 10% aka Zardari has been jailed for 8 years and still has pending cases against him in Switzerland and HE was still voted in.
Techincally both of them werent, but their parties were, but it still defeats the purpose when you vote in a political party whose party head is a known criminal.
Imran Khan was the popular choice and his party did well considering it was their first trial by fire. The next few days will be interesting as the PML-N might have a majority of seats in the the national assembly but not an outright lead so there are going to be a lot of under the table handshakes (when in politics there aren't?) and jostling for powerful positions in the ministries etc
But still considering this was the country's first ever transition from one politically elected government to another, I would say it went better than expected. Democracy takes years and years to settle in and slowly and effectively push out all the filth of bureaucracy and corruption that has been there for the past 50 years. The powerful families and the feudal lords and the king makers all got a nasty reality shock last night when the people spoke by giving over 40 seats to Imran Khan's party (despite there being massive massive reports of vote-rigging). Now all we have to do is to bear out these next 5 years and all he has to do is make sure his ministers deliver on what they promised in whatever capacity they can, and the next elections are his.
Well wishful thinker, I are
Imran Khan is not much different to the rest. The guy is a Taleban apologist and supports the Sunni fundie view that Ahmadis are non Muslims .Over the years Sunni fundis have killed scores of Ahmadis. Just disgusting of him to support their mentality when Pakistani minorities are facing pogroms.

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/17...naya-pakistan/

http://tribune.com.pk/story/544393/f...te-imran-khan/
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Old May 12th 2013, 4:48 pm
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Originally Posted by Boomhauer View Post
Imran Khan is not much different to the rest. The guy is a Taleban apologist and supports the Sunni fundie view that Ahmadis are non Muslims .Over the years Sunni fundis have killed scores of Ahmadis. Just disgusting of him to support their mentality when Pakistani minorities are facing pogroms.

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/17...naya-pakistan/

http://tribune.com.pk/story/544393/f...te-imran-khan/
Well right now the way things are in Afghanistan, even the usa has become a taliban apologist (well maybe not apologist but you know what i mean) of sorts since they know they cannot hope to have any form of government without some form or other of support from them. So, as far as I am concerned, what the Taliban are doing in the name of religion is wrong, but to think that one can have any form of peace without bringing them in the equation is flatly denying the reality as it is. They were created by us, so now we must deal with them. By us I mean the usa support during the soviet invasion / middle east support during the same era plus now more so/ pakistan ISI then and now/ Indian support more so now/ Iranian support then and now/ local afghan warlord support because there is a HUGE sum of money from the drug trade involved which no one wants to give up. Everyone has tried fighting them and I am sorry to say no one has quite succeeded in totally eliminating them. Such is the way gorilla warfare of today is fought that once you think you have them in a corner and you kill a few hundred or even thousands, they vanish and appear someplace else at a different time. As far as I am concerned just give the whole area up to the chinese as I am sure they will be able to solve this problem in a few months.

And yes, the Ahmadis / qadianis are a minority and worse-treated then Christians if you ask me, which is saying a lot as I feel the Christians and the Hindus are really badly treated. But IK's quick denial of support for the Ahmadi's was not surprising at all since saying that in this day and age in Pakistan is like walking around with a target painted on your forehead. Heres the reason why :

Things take a turn for the worse for anyone educated enough to even hint that the minorities in Pakistan are badly treated. Sure everyone will agree that it shouldnt be so, but no one will come out on the telly or the papers to condemn it. Reason being, and I am being totally honest here : Almost ALL Sunnis consider the Ahmadis/Qadianis as heretics, NOT a minority mind you. But as plain and simple heretics, ones who were shown the path but then strayed from it due to whatever reason. Now, right or wrong, I am not discussing that.
I am just stating a fact that is the honest truth for almost ALL Sunnis in Pakistan. I cannot speak for the Shias since I have never asked a Shia what they feel about the Ahmadis/Qadianis.
So when you understand this fact that the Pakistanis do not consider the Ahmadis/Qadianis as minorities but as heretics, then you will understand why they are persecuted like that and why no one will speak up for them as whoever does so will automatically become 'wajib-ul-qatl' (licensed to be killed). I repeat that I am NOT saying it is right to do so, I am just merely explaining the dynamics of the situation. My own personal opinion, as I have always stated, let and let live, life is already complicated enough as it is to give it a religious twist
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Old May 12th 2013, 4:52 pm
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Weird that different sects of the same religion think that killing each other is good though...

Or am I just being ignorant to the real issues?
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Old May 12th 2013, 4:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Kix View Post
Weird that different sects of the same religion think that killing each other is good though...

Or am I just being ignorant to the real issues?
hasnt that been the case since forever mate?
I refuse to believe that the God who gave us intellect, compassion and reason would ask us to forgo them all in His name
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Old May 12th 2013, 5:00 pm
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Mr. Irish wasp bloke.

You have a great understanding of the area, the sects, the religions, everything. Gotta say I'm impressed. Where did you get hem all from?
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Old May 12th 2013, 5:00 pm
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and no, you are right about the real issue
at the end of the day its all about one idiot saying that i am better than the other idiot and i will kill him for it
why? i have no idea, maybe we will never learn
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