scrubbedexpat141

What's that then?

moneypenny20

It's a bloody annoying phrase that fans of Trump have started using in relation to the Russia link. Instead of fake news, or alternative facts, it's now a nothing burger, just two pieces of bread with nothing in the middle.

scrubbedexpat141

Oh, how tragic.

I have deliberately ignored this Trump / Trump Jr / Russians / Lawyers etc news. I know whatever I read I won't believe so it's pointless.

DXBtoDOH

Well, there's probably truth to it, isn't there?

As far as I can tell, the Trump/Russian thing is a bunch of inexperienced Trump campaign people and Trump family members who never thought they'd win having a few of what they thought as friendly conversations with the Russians that dabbled in what-if scenarios. They probably broke a few of the US's laws over foreign meddling or influence but without realising it and nothing critical was said or exchanged. And the cover up is panicking when they realised they did indeed break some obscure law and tried to cover it up.

Trump and his people are so incompetent and ignorant that I have a hard time believing anything serious happened between them and the Russians and the Russians are causing mischief because it stokes their egos.

Much more serious is the allegations the UAE hacked Qatar's sites and faked the whole outrage over the sheikh.

Arnold S

The problem is it's operating through a new platform, major governments have yet to define how serious it actually is.

It's estimated that a 1/3 of all social media accounts are fake, this ranges from spambots selling viagra and fake raybans through to propaganda seeding and serious espionage at the other end of the scale. This figure will continue to rise rapidly.

It's kind of accepted that it was the trolls and meme's that got Trump into power. There was a large piece in The Observer that painted Robert Mercer as some kind of modern James Bond baddie that delivered Brexit on a plate too. That MI5/6 are ill prepared for the likes of him, Bannon and that silly green frog.

But then there was the UK election where the result has everyone, including governments, wondering whether Cambridge Analytica, Brietbart, Putin's dark army etc are all just rainmakers. They back a position and if it comes off for whatever reason, they take primary credit for it. Sure you can blitz the Daily Mail's or YouTube's comments section but after a while the ordinary public either see through it or a factory closing in their city or Grenfell has a greater impact on their personal lives.

What the Russians call "dezinformatsiya" has been going on long before the internet though and practiced by just about all governments I would imagine. It's how these practices relate to the modern, digital age which is the issue here.

DXBtoDOH

As the Corbynistas can gleefully show you.

We are in interesting times. Fake news is as old as civilisation and manipulation of information is equally as old. But the ability to spread misinformation or fake news or alternative facts, however you call it, is now much more unpredictable and uncontrollable. The social media platforms has taken information - real and fake - and liberated it from the guardians of the past. This applies equally to responsible academics and manipulative politicians (and prejudiced academics and journalists and honourable political leaders).

Arnold S

I deleted a paragraph that I felt was irrelevant but not so much now. Along with the above there is a also a very conscious drive through these channels to reduce to all argument to binary - Corbynistas, liberal, libtards, snowflakes etc etc etc. It's sports team shorthand, you're either on one side 100% or the other. A dumbing down, that's very effective in getting a populace to support policies that are actually not in their own self interests.

What's new (and where the concern is) is this is probably the first time fake news is getting propped up by fake support and lots of it. Which means nobody has any idea how this facet will play out yet. Which I guess is the concern regarding Trump and Russia, especially given his apparent intellect.

DXBtoDOH

I agree. And I also believe that the left has been so successful in pushing for the arguments to be binary and redefining the arguments as sharply good/evil grounds that any deviation from one side pushes you onto the other side, and they have also been successful in getting their followers to accept this attitude. In contrast to the past, today's conservative right, at least in the UK, seems to be much more tolerant (ironically) of deviations from the binary and accepting of a grey area than the left. This would certainly explain why the left finds it extremely difficult to have frank discussions about many important issues facing the UK or the globe. And also why the British left tends to be more outspoken, violent and aggressive than the British right. One only needs to see the sharply differing reactions by the British left towards the Grenfell tragedy and the Manchester terror attack to see this.

As it is, we are in interesting times. It's fascinating watching the political classes grapple with these new challenges they never expected as they matured in a very different world.

On a similar theme, it's been suggested that the real reason for Corbyn's popularity among the youth is that he's seen as authentic (regardless of what he actually believes in) as opposed to a carefully controlled and presented personality aka your typical politician. If true, and there's validity to it, it does show that despite all the fakeness we're discussing, most people are still able to see through it. It'd also explain why Rees-Mogg has his own popularity, including respect, from many on the left side. He's indisputably authentic. The good part is that the days of Tony Blair / New Labour's carefully controlled spin seems to be over for good.

scrubbedexpat141

I agree with this. Good post.

Ironic?
I'm sure both the right and left can say what you've just said and claim they're better. Isn't that part of it?

I'm not left of centre, I'm right. Yet I'm probably lumped into your binary classification as a liberal lefty / whatever by people who are just further right than me. Is that normal? Acceptable? Am I a snowflake for thinking that's just stupid? So I've been pushed to the left by the right because I'm not sharp right? Isn't that what you're saying the left has done?

Come on DtD. You're better than this fishing trip.

Arnold S

I was thinking further back and across the ocean when people like Ann Coulter first started popping up and Fox News was completely indistinguishable from Fox Sports in terms of set design, format, idents and so on.

mission

At the car wash garage trying to explain to one of the supervisor guys;
Me: could you tell them to please use a wet towel when cleaning the seats
Guy: looks at me blankly
Me (repeating myself): please tell them to use a wet towel
Guy: still looking at me completely puzzled
Me (opening the car door and using hand motion): use wet towel when cleaning the seats
Guy: ma'am its better we use a water towel
Me (in my head arrrgghhh): YES! YES!

Arnold S

Are you a fan? He voted against same sex marriage six times and been outspoken on the bill since it passed.

Dubaiexile

It seems we live in times when the minority has become the majority, and you will be persecuted if you do not agree.

The fascists of the future will be called the anti fascists.

Pulaski

There are very few who are less tolerant of the views of others than those who profess to be welcoming and tolerant of all no matter what their appearance, opintins, or proclivities.

Boomhauer

A radio station in Berkeley,Ca just uninvited Richard Dawkins ,stating they did so because his comments are "abusive" towards Islam
KPFA cancels Richard Dawkins' speech because of his tweets about Islam — Berkeleyside