coffindodger

People could end up having to work into their seventies under a radical overhaul of the state pension system that is being unveiled.

In a series of landmark moves designed to help deal with an ageing population, the Government will announce plans to scrap the default retirement age which allows employers to get rid of staff when they reach the age of 65.

The state pension age for men is also set to rise to 66 from 2016 - nearly a decade earlier than the last Government was planning.

But ministers are to also raise the possibility of extending the pension age to 70 and even older in the following decades as the country wrestles with ever-increasing life expectancy


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100624/...o-dba1618.html

kittycat1

All sucks really, but surely working til your that bit older will put even more of a strain on unemployment figures. And to be fair just because you're living longer it doesn't mean you have a better quality of life, I know of so many people that have retired and then become ill or died, the whole idea of working into your 70's is horrific. Isn't retirement meant to be about enjoying yourself? Saying that I don't have a pension or anything! And who is going to employ a 70 year old over someone in their 20's? I see bleak times ahead!

Hello.Kitty

yeah, we're stuffed. I am convinced that by the time we retire, there will be no such thing. In reality, if you look at it objectively, why on earth should we pay for people to live without working for the best part of 20 years? If any one turned round at any other point in their lives and said "hmm, I'm not going to work from now on" they'd be (and are) called benefit spongers and wasters.

Yeeeessss, ok, retired people have often worked for "all their lives" - although not necessarily - but really, what are the the completely unquestionable arguments justifying a state pension?

[takes cover behind the flame-proof shield]

Victor Meldrew

I think I may have been born at the wrong time (in the late 50's). Seems that as I approach pensionable age, any financial help is just going to be gradually taken away.

I am wondering how, when I am in my 60's, I am going to be able to do my job. I teach Physical education. What about others who do physical jobs like labourers, refuse collectors, builders?

Victor Meldrew

Because they (hopefully) have made great contributions, physically, financially and socially to society (as well as financially to the state pension fund).

As they get to a point where physically and mentally they dont have the energy to work full time, particularly in some jobs (see my comments above), it is only right that society helps them live a reasonable quality of life.

I think it is a very different argument and situation to benefit scroungers who do sweet FA for society but take everything they can, out of out.

Inselaffen

why does the UK still discriminate against men when it comes to retirement age. Women live longer yet get to retire earlier!

kittycat1

Inselaffen, because we are the weaker sex!

Ok I appear to have gone into a bit of a rant;

I can remember when I was a kid my parents both worked long hours (Dad was a lorry driver and mum was a hairdresser), so my gran would pick us up from school and look after us in the evening, she would have been in her early 60's when my brother and I were at pimary school so she'd just retired (although she still did some house keeping work). Without her I'm not sure what my parents would have done, I guess back then you could pay a teenager 50p an hour or something to babysit but how much are babysitters these days? and would you trust them to pick your kids up from school? I admit less people live as close to their families as they did 30 years ago but I also know of friends who have moved closer to their families when they have small children for the extra support. Working longer, paying more in child care, having your kids bought up by strangers, all lends itself to a complete breakdown of society and family values (ok a bit dramatic). Persoanlly I think a step backwards would be a good thing.

I also think there should be lessons in school on how to manage your money longterm. We have become a generation of disposable shoppers relying on credit to shop and buying stuff that is lucky to last a year, subsequently spending more than we need to on 'stuff' and ending up paying more in credit card charges than we save. Credit cards have stopped us from saving and putting money aside for a rainy day let alone saving for our later years in life.

Our spending havbits are only the tip of the iceburg as this isn't actually a pension issue its an economy issue which is the result of many things.

We are a generation of victims of marketing and blue chip consumerism and greed. High streets are ruled by the big boys, there are very few independants left because rates and rent are astronimcal yet most towns give reduced rates to the likes of Debenhams as they want to have a big name store in their town, even though there is one in every high street. And what do the likes of Debenhams actually give back to the economy, low paid retail jobs where the profit goes to a big fat boss who is drilling the suppliers and manufacturers for lower and lower margins so they get bigger profits, pushing production off shore and therfore taking manufacturing jobs out of the UK, whereas with independants that are locally owned the profit would generally be put back into the local economy, product is bought from smaller brands who tend to produce within the UK. Anyone else see a problem with this?

Our economy has grown at an extortionate rate over the last few decades, at a rate that is unsustainable, yet we have lost all manufacturing in our own country, kids are encouraged to go to university can get into debt before they even (try to)get a job, yet there aren't enough jobs to support the ammount of graduates we churn out year after year, yet there is a shortage of skilled labour. To get out of the recession the govenment has tried to encourage more spending but this in the long run will be our downfall.

Within the Uk we already work some of the longest hours in Europe, we should be thriving but instead people feel fed up and unhappy, we have lost the things that are important to us, taking time off and spending time with our families and friends, not binge drinking for escapism. If you think of your favourite memory, it is probably not when you went shopping and spent 500 quid on your credit card on something you threw away 8 months later, its not working 15 hour days, its not commuting, it is more than likely time spent with your loved ones, laughing with friends or little day trips with the kids, this is precious time that we seem to be spending less and less time doing. How you get out of this hole we are in I don't know but to move forwards I think we need to take a big step back and support small businesses, local society and bring back manufacturing so we can work locally, have more time with our families, get to know our neighbours and spend our money locally, we need to accept that our throwaway lifestyles can not be continued longterm without us destroying ourselves and having to work until we are on our death beds.

Earning a moderate living, having a nice home and being able to enjoy your retirement are not big dreams, yet they currently seem unachievable. Solving the problem short term is one thing but I think we need to actually look at the bigger picture and aim for the long term if we want to go back to being Great Britain.

I really could go on and on but am sure most have stopped reading by now so I'll button it for now!

Kittycat
xxx

Arcadia

I agree with you when you say ''kkds are encouraged to go to Uni with no chance of getting a job''.

A few of my sons mates went straight into sixth form and then onto Uni, when they left school, my son pissed about and didnt get the exam results needed. He went to college and did a two year plumbing course, followed by a two year apprenticeship with a local firm.

He is still working 14 hour days, despite the recession, has a beautiful home, a nice car and has skills for life.

The kids who got the degree's are working in ''Pets at home'' and Tesco's.

MacScot

Perhaps they should have different retirement ages depending on where you live. For example, male life expectancy in the Calton ward of Glasgow is 54 years…so the retirement age here could be 50 !

Scottish male life expectancy is 2.7 years less than male life expectancy in England, and 20 per cent of Scotsmen never draw a state pension because they do not reach their 65th birthday.

Victor Meldrew

... or mabe base it on the life expectancy of your family. If your parents/grandparents died in their 90's you get you pension in your 70's, if they died in their 50's, you get your pension when you are 30 etc.

Just a thought.

Hello.Kitty

I'm with Kittycat - I think the only way forward for us lot, who are facing retirement in 25 years... sorry, 30 years, or 40... is to contract back onto our families.

It may sound as if I'm joking, but I will definitely be bringing my children up to think it's normal for them to have some kind of caring role for their aged parents when we become too old to work... just as we cared for them when they were too young to work. I'd fully expect them to make use of us for childcare, etc as well.

There are also some other mechanisms which may become appealing: in France there's such a thing as a "rente viagere" which basically pays an old person an agreed sum for the rest of their lives and in exchange, the person paying the sum gets the old person's house in the will. This can work out well for all concerned, as long as it's set up in a fair manner, but sometimes the person paying gets a better deal than expected, and sometimes not - dunno if you remember that woman who died at 120 or 122 a few years back? One rather entrepreneurial chap contracted a "rente viagere" with her, when she was in her 60s or 70s - a VERY expensive house by the end of it!

It's a sad fact that the state can't afford to pay out a pension. Life expectancy is such that many can look forward to at least 20 years of retirement and the minimum years worked to gain entitlement has gone down to 30...

Anyhow, yes, it does still worry me. Of course it does. I work - when I'm not a SAHM - in a field where you need to be on the ball, up to date and fully informed to be able to do your job properly. With few exceptions, I doubt many clients would consider an elderly granny being able to deliver cutting-edge designs.

As a point of interest, I'm now seeing a lot of people of retirement age working in retail - B&Q is a favourite with the blokes, as well as "personal shopper" places in supermarkets. Not saying that these aren't physical jobs, but it does make me wonder if businesses will start switching from young people (often with no experience and no clue) to older people for these positions. Certainly, if I'm looking for a specific item or bit of advice, I'd plump for the older person any day.

Interesting times ahead...

lionheart

Personally I weould hate to retire compulsorily at 65 unless by then I am getting senile. I know several British consultants working here who are over 70yo and loving every minute. Mind you, they don't work 8am-6pm like most of us. Not sure what I would do to keep my brain active once retired.

MacScot

I am a consultant and as long as occasional jobs come in I hope to carry on. In general, older consultants (therefore more experience) become "grey-beards" and are more highly valued. I know some that are working well into their late 70s in Australia.

Eva

HelloK..This coupled with your remark re why fees for indigenous students versus overseas students in regard to online learning should be calculated differently
-and knowing(you posted re your life there) La Belle France has probably benefitted more from the taxes of your father et tu..makes me think you are more akin to your first pesronality on this board- the L person?Verbose,light and in need of a rethink.....
Sorry but I'm seeing you in a different and very 'blue' light...