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One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Old Mar 3rd 2017, 8:09 am
  #16  
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by IKnowNothing View Post
You never mentioned the pirates..... As this used to be known as "The pirate Coast" - or am i not allowed to say that either?
Well that's an interesting topic: what constitutes a pirate? The British accused the RAK rulers of being pirates because they attempted to charge levies on vessels passing through their coastal waters in the late 18th and early 19th century. Even the British version of history now accepts that the "pirate" designation was simply a ruse to allow the British to attack, which they did unsuccessfully. They came back a few years later, better armed and shelled the locals into submission, hence the Truce that gave rise to the Trucial States. At the time the rulers of RAK were the most powerful in the area and the Sharjah ruling family are another branch of the same family ehich arose when one disgruntled prince left to found his own settlement.
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Old Mar 3rd 2017, 12:26 pm
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope View Post
Well that's an interesting topic: what constitutes a pirate? The British accused the RAK rulers of being pirates because they attempted to charge levies on vessels passing through their coastal waters in the late 18th and early 19th century. Even the British version of history now accepts that the "pirate" designation was simply a ruse to allow the British to attack, which they did unsuccessfully. They came back a few years later, better armed and shelled the locals into submission, hence the Truce that gave rise to the Trucial States. At the time the rulers of RAK were the most powerful in the area and the Sharjah ruling family are another branch of the same family ehich arose when one disgruntled prince left to found his own settlement.

can't seem to find this version anywhere
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Old Mar 3rd 2017, 12:56 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
can't seem to find this version anywhere
No, nor can I. Weirdly enough what i read is that it was the pre trucial states doing the attacking on Indian and Persian boats, from Qatar to Oman, the whole length of the coastline.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 6:50 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
can't seem to find this version anywhere
There's not much written about the history of the region in general except contemporary British sources who were actually connected with the British East India Company which had a clear commercial interest in suppressing the tax collecting activities of the Julfar/Hormuz locals. There has been quite a bit of research done, particularly archaeology, since independence though mostly at an academic level. The head of the Archaeology section in RAK is European, Christian Velde and Sharjah's main advisor, Peter Jackson is British as is Peter Hellyer, now retired but still influential in AD. I've heard all of them speak on this subject a few times and while they are not entirely disinterested given who pays their wages, they are primarily concerned with good scholarship and analysis. It's not even a subject of dispute any more that the piracy charge was motivated to secure British military support to quell the attacks from the tax collecting ships (which came from different local squabbling sheikhdoms). This was a classic BEIC tactic and ultimately resulted in what was a purely commercial exploitation enterprise in India morphing into the "empire". Like so many things it's a question of perspective.

Julfar was a prominent and wealthy trading port up to the 17th century until the creek silted up but the area continued to be reasonably well off due to the palm oases and marine culture. RAK is unique in having mountains (for year round growing of crops), palm oases and sea access all in close proximity. Even though by the 18th century the peak was long past, to characterise the inhabitants as pirates does not reflect the reality that is now increasingly well understood and accepted.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 7:08 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

I wouldn't mind being called a pirate. Quite exciting and I like rum, a lot.
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Old Mar 5th 2017, 6:55 pm
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I wouldn't mind being called a pirate. Quite exciting and I like rum, a lot.
Careful , such talk over there and they might think you are hinting at liking butt-piracy
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 5:51 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope View Post
There's not much written about the history of the region in general except contemporary British sources who were actually connected with the British East India Company which had a clear commercial interest in suppressing the tax collecting activities of the Julfar/Hormuz locals. There has been quite a bit of research done, particularly archaeology, since independence though mostly at an academic level. The head of the Archaeology section in RAK is European, Christian Velde and Sharjah's main advisor, Peter Jackson is British as is Peter Hellyer, now retired but still influential in AD. I've heard all of them speak on this subject a few times and while they are not entirely disinterested given who pays their wages, they are primarily concerned with good scholarship and analysis. It's not even a subject of dispute any more that the piracy charge was motivated to secure British military support to quell the attacks from the tax collecting ships (which came from different local squabbling sheikhdoms). This was a classic BEIC tactic and ultimately resulted in what was a purely commercial exploitation enterprise in India morphing into the "empire". Like so many things it's a question of perspective.

Julfar was a prominent and wealthy trading port up to the 17th century until the creek silted up but the area continued to be reasonably well off due to the palm oases and marine culture. RAK is unique in having mountains (for year round growing of crops), palm oases and sea access all in close proximity. Even though by the 18th century the peak was long past, to characterise the inhabitants as pirates does not reflect the reality that is now increasingly well understood and accepted.
so hardly the accepted British view on history then.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 5:57 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

He's just one of those people looking to blame everything on the British

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
so hardly the accepted British view on history then.
The region in the 18th century was a primitive backwater of no value to anyone. Oman, particularly Muscat, has a more interesting history.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 6:02 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH View Post
He's just one of those people looking to blame everything on the British



The region in the 18th century was a primitive backwater of no value to anyone. Oman, particularly Muscat, has a more interesting history.
Again, I make an argument based on facts and reason and rather than take issue with any of those points, you seek to dismiss my point by making up some childish travesty of a characterisation: "just one of those people....."

You are revealing yourself here more than perhaps you realise.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 6:03 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
so hardly the accepted British view on history then.
Well these people are highly influential in establishing and evolving that view - SOAS and all that...
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 6:17 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope View Post
Well these people are highly influential in establishing and evolving that view - SOAS and all that...
Tell me a historical record that isn't....?
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 6:47 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by jam25mack View Post
Tell me a historical record that isn't....?
Sorry, I don't understand your question?
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 7:06 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope View Post
Sorry, I don't understand your question?
he means, "tell me a historical record that isn't altered by different sides".
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 7:13 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

History is subject to the vagaries of the fashionable sentiments of the day, as the clever 'reinterpretations' of history over the generations show us.

A meaningless backwater region is now rich and doesn't like aspects of its history so it invites scholars, who know which side of the bread is buttered, to reinterpret the history to portray them in a more favourable light. This happens over and over again all over the world throughout the ages, from the kings of old who hired scribes to blacken the names of their rivals by rewriting the historical accounts, to modern day nationalists and left-wing academics seeking to further their particular causes.

All historians have their own agenda. Any scholar of history, amateur or professional, must understand the agendas of the writings and studies they review if they want to have a broader and more realistic view of the history in question.
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Old Mar 6th 2017, 7:20 am
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Default Re: One of my true pet hates in Dubai is being addressed!!

Originally Posted by IKnowNothing View Post
he means, "tell me a historical record that isn't altered by different sides".
Essentially yes, history is generally recorded by the victor. They embellish and over exaggerate their victories while the loser under estimates their loses and tries to state things weren't as bad as they were....

For historical accounts if you go somewhere with the middle ground you're probably about right.
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