Not Scaremongering

Old Mar 24th 2014, 3:19 pm
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Default Not Scaremongering

English taught as a foreign language at a school in Leeds

A comprehensive school where native English speakers are in a minority is to start teaching English as a foreign language to all of its pupils.

“Many of our pupils are not only new to English but they are not even literate in their own language. In some cases we are the first people to put a pen in their hand.”

“We have children from every African country, every European country, and just about anywhere ending in –stan."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-in-Leeds.html

All credit to the school for tackling the issue in a way that seems to be appropriate, but...
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 5:31 pm
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

How do International schools running a British Curriculum work out here in comparison? Do they only let in English speakers? What are any issues that could be seen in UK schools where mass immigration is drastically increasing the percentage of students in thus specific situation?
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 6:42 pm
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English can be taught as a second language after YORKSHIRE
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 6:51 pm
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

Bilingualism and immigration in London have given the city's schools a massive boost
http://m.bbc.com/news/education-21534863

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/m...s-9125535.html
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 10:21 pm
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

What is the frightening is the creeping Islamisation of any country with a sizeable Muslim minority.

Islamic law is to be effectively enshrined in the British legal system for the first time under guidelines for solicitors on drawing up “Sharia compliant” wills.

Under guidance produced by The Law Society, High Street solicitors will be able to compose Islamic wills that refuse women an equal share of inheritances and discount non-believers entirely, the Sunday Telegraph reported.

The recommendations can also prevent illegitimate children, as well as those who have been adopted, from being included in an inheritance.

Nicholas Fluck, president of The Law Society told the newspaper that the document, which would be recognised by Britain’s courts, would promote “good practice” in applying Islamic principles in
Since the above article is from the Indy, one can't claim it is right wing fear mongering.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-9210682.html


Now an anrticle from the Telegraph on Islamisation of what was previously a well regarded school.

" Government intervenes at school 'taken over’ by Muslim radicals"
" Secondary to be placed in special measures by Ofsted as parents and staff detail campaign of 'Islamisation’ in city "

The move, described as “seismic” by senior educational sources, follows a highly unusual two Ofsted inspections in the past three weeks at the school, the alleged victim of a campaign by Islamists called a “Trojan Horse” to remove secular head teachers and install Islamic practices in Birmingham state schools.

It will be embarrassing for the inspectorate and the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who previously hailed Park View as an example of educational excellence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-radicals.html
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 3:29 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

Originally Posted by shiraz1 View Post
Bilingualism and immigration in London have given the city's schools a massive boost
http://m.bbc.com/news/education-21534863

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/m...s-9125535.html
In 1997, just 16% of its students got five GCSES at grades A-C, the league table measure then. Last year, 71% passed at least 5 GCSES at grades A*-C including English and Maths.
Never, ever, ever using percentage of A to C's in league tables as indicators of performance, education or student capability.

What happens in poor schools is they bring in a (frequently) non-educator to run it. If a kid is doing badly they only teach them five subjects. If the kid can't even do them then they're kicked to the kerb to prevent them messing with the league table entry for the school.

Take, say, a school with a 24% passing rating. Right in the middle of chav central. Maths, English, PE, PE2 and PE3 become the five subjects. 50% of the lads in the school honestly believe they are going to be professional footballers. The pass rate goes up to 96%. No one questions it. The boys literacy is so low that many are described as 'unable to read and write properly' by more capable kids in their classes.

I was once told not to do or say anything that could harm the educational chances of deprived students. But if means a misguided viewpoint on meritocracy then everyone who thinks like this can go jump off a cliff. After over a decade of not marking students down for spelling and grammar at GCSE English we have to ask whether mass immigration and low literacy of these students in the English language, let alone their own, makes one iota of difference to the ludicrous and institutionally corrupt league table situation we find our nation in today.
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 3:46 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

Originally Posted by Beakersful View Post
Never, ever, ever using percentage of A to C's in league tables as indicators of performance, education or student capability.

What happens in poor schools is they bring in a (frequently) non-educator to run it. If a kid is doing badly they only teach them five subjects. If the kid can't even do them then they're kicked to the kerb to prevent them messing with the league table entry for the school.

Take, say, a school with a 24% passing rating. Right in the middle of chav central. Maths, English, PE, PE2 and PE3 become the five subjects. 50% of the lads in the school honestly believe they are going to be professional footballers. The pass rate goes up to 96%. No one questions it. The boys literacy is so low that many are described as 'unable to read and write properly' by more capable kids in their classes.

I was once told not to do or say anything that could harm the educational chances of deprived students. But if means a misguided viewpoint on meritocracy then everyone who thinks like this can go jump off a cliff. After over a decade of not marking students down for spelling and grammar at GCSE English we have to ask whether mass immigration and low literacy of these students in the English language, let alone their own, makes one iota of difference to the ludicrous and institutionally corrupt league table situation we find our nation in today.

None of which explains the huge relative performance growth of. London schools compared to the rest of the country
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 3:50 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

Check the dates of the periods in question. 55% of London residents don't have English as their first language anymore. London has been slow to catch up with the artificial league tables due to that period of mass immigration. Makes all the sense in the world. London hasn't been operating in a vacuum.
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:13 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

Originally Posted by Beakersful View Post
Check the dates of the periods in question. 55% of London residents don't have English as their first language anymore. London has been slow to catch up with the artificial league tables due to that period of mass immigration. Makes all the sense in the world. London hasn't been operating in a vacuum.
You'd expect London to improve as the immigrant parents moving in are much more educated than the people who had children in the capital 30 years ago were, and they are much better educated than British Londoners now
It's a worldwide phenomenon, explains why British expats in Dubai don't lower standards and why NY is better educated than Tennessee
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:21 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

After the time I've spent out of the EU throughout my life, and interacting with immigrant workforces, education is less of a key indicator to me of capability, trust and relationships that I was led to believe growing up.

League tables are no true indicator of anything. You have to close your ears to them and find another testing level.
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:35 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

Originally Posted by Beakersful View Post
After the time I've spent out of the EU throughout my life, and interacting with immigrant workforces, education is less of a key indicator to me of capability, trust and relationships that I was led to believe growing up.

League tables are no true indicator of anything. You have to close your ears to them and find another testing level.

Its a complex issue, but the idea that Britains education standards are reduced by educated immigrants is farcical.

"Britain’s foreign-born population includes a higher proportion of people with tertiary education (broadly, university graduates and above) than in almost any other OECD country (see chart 1 for a selected list and here for the full data). Incomers are much more likely to be highly educated than native Brits, and that gap is growing."

http://www.economist.com/news/britai...-better-billed

The evidence is all in the opposite direction

http://www.theguardian.com/education...lass-challenge

""In comparison to other rich world countries, London is the only capital where [pupils'] achievement is above the national average," said Wiliam

"I think the evidence we have is that most immigrant families seem to have high aspirations for their children.

"Because London does have a relatively high proportion of recent immigrants, the aspirations of their parents are likely to be higher."

Last edited by shiraz1; Mar 25th 2014 at 4:43 am.
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:42 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

The education, at school or home, of native speaking Brits compared to other cultures us not black and white. "But educational attainment does not transfer entirely smoothly to the workplace." 49% of our youth go into uni now, about 38% of our youth get a degree out of it. So, why do business leaders say our kids are going backwards in employability from A level standards?

There was evidence of English ability in native speakers dropping in London a few years back dye to mass immigration, where the native speakers became the minority. The dialect spoken, vocabulary in storage, was going to hamper careers like a closed door.
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:45 am
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"There was evidence of English ability in native speakers dropping in London a few years back dye to mass immigration, where the native speakers became the minority. "

I'd like to see that, most evidence in both economic and educational spheres shows bilingualism/multilingualism as being likely to raise both educational and economic performance.

Last edited by shiraz1; Mar 25th 2014 at 4:47 am.
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 5:07 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

According to the 2011 London Census:

British nationals - 5,000,000
The next 27 countries with the most people in London - 2,000,000
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Old Mar 25th 2014, 7:21 am
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Default Re: Not Scaremongering

Originally Posted by shiraz1 View Post
Its a complex issue, but the idea that Britains education standards are reduced by educated immigrants is farcical.
Which is what no-one said. When you have a comprehensive where the majority don't speak English, and for some pupils it's the first time they've held a pen, then there's a problem. A ****ing big problem.
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