Meow

Well, that is rather my point. How can they possibly really believe in a deity that has never been seen, never heard, for which there is no evidence and has rules that were written down anything between 1,500 and 6,000 years ago? Do they really believe it all, or is it just a following of convention?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but religion simply makes no sense to me.



Edit> This thread is about Norway. This mass murderer is clearly a psychopath. Does applying other labels make any difference to the situation?

sherri

I had no intention to pick an argument, merely responded to your highly provocative post. It seems you have ignored all my previous requests to avoid prejudice/favouritism and now you are accusing me of coming on to this forum to pick arguments and twisting other people’s comments. My comments on any discussion are “picking arguments” and your Pal’s consistent discrimination and mischief is valid . You know how much you despise religion and have made that clear on a number of occasions and if you call someone following a particular faith deluded, they are hardly going to smile back and applaud you for insulting them.

I could add a wee bit more but again I’m sticking to my principal and out of respect would not comment any further on your prejudice.

Just a reminder, I have nothing but respect for you Meow.

seven seas

What an outrageous idea... Your hateful spite-filled venomous views are filled with apocalyptic visions of a culture and a pure ideology struggling to survive an invasion from The Other. The civilised world has had enough of this narrow-mindedness.

As much as you try to distance your pathetic small-minded ideas from his, at heart they are the same, driven by the same fears and xenophobic propaganda.

The world is increasingly aware of the kind of shit fascists spread: both kinds of fascists- your 'ideology' and that of the muslim fundie are but two sides of the same worthless coin.

Meow

Surely those of us without religion are permitted to have other beliefs?

Sherri, it seems that every post you make is about religion. You don't comment on other issues and you have commented to the effect that atheism is the main cause in the breakdown of society. Many will find that offensive.

I am anti-religion. I am not anti-people, no matter what they believe. I think that religion should be a personal choice and a private matter and that the world would be a far better place if that's how it was treated and practiced.

seven seas

+1

sherri

Blame Norm for most (not every) of my posts about religion, we are same age group so perhaps a little immature and sometimes take things a little too far. Despite all efforts, I couldn’t resist temptation to respond to his ‘facts and figures”. I know at times I am defending the almost un-defendable but I try to provide my own perspective on things so we could find a common ground, realise that there are faults in every one of us and eradicate all that hate that has been mounting.

With regards to atheism, well it's a personal opinion based on my own findings but I guess it’s no different to how someone perceive Islam. I agree that this view may offend some but so does the Islamic view, I can assure you that my intention is not to target anyone in particular, it’s just a view – i hope you understand what I mean!

I know you're sweet and have no anti-people agenda, just feel a little favouritism at times but I can understand the reason for this.

Can we cuddle now

Blue Cat

if this thread goes down the route others of this nature have gone I am going to ask for it to be closed

Norm_uk

Agree completely about Christianity. I don't recall excusing any religion's shameful episodes and would go as far as to say Islam and Christianity are world leaders by far in the shameful history episodes. I could mention however the good parts or which founder was more moral and humane but that's another debate.
They are all mad murderers - the only difference is the ideology. Christian, Muslim, Marxists, Nazis or whoever...they take an ideology and make it absolute then go about murdering.
Again I agree. The Norwegian shooter claims to be Christian and is inspired by the Knights Templar...there you go.
Well this is a different area now. Whilst the bible contains a lot of violence, especially in the Old Testament, the founder of Christianity seemed to preach pacifism. Turn the other cheek and all that.

If we look at the founder of Islam we see a fellow who led men to war, captured women as war booty and did a lot of things that were not too out of place for his time but are generally not done in the modern era. His earlier teachings seemed better but as he aged he seemed to have gone down the warlord path...

But you are right, if he'd been a Muslim people would be more likely to blame the religion than his insanity. It's another (unhealthy) debate as to whether that's justified or not.

Cannot agree more. I'm all for a bit of meditation, spirituality and non-literal belief that is deeply personal. Shame most religions don't teach stuff like that.

The only one I can think of where the more fundamentalist they become the safer we all are is Jainism.

N.

Norm_uk

Thanks for your valued synopsis of both my character and my ideology (I wasn't really aware I was subscribed to any ideology really but never mind).

I think after reading your input that it's probably best I don't reply. Like most people when accused of being something unpleasant the urge to respond is strong but I very much doubt anything I type will be seen for what it is by you.

N.

The Dean

Changing the topic slightly............ most of the networks carried (live) the Norwegian Police press conference this evening.

Anybody see any of it? (You couldn't possibly have sat through all of it!). All I can say is that I'm surprised the death toll wasn't in the thousands. I can scarcely recall such an ill-prepared and out-of-their-depth bunch of idiots ever appearing in public before.

The helicopters "weren't equipped" to deal with a "lone gunman"...... the response was slow due to a "staff shortage", and a delay in senior officers realising that "it was a real situation, not a joke".......

.......... and my favourite: "You can criticise us if you wish, but we are only human beings".

Boomhauer

I didn't see the TV press conference but I think the authorities being illprepared is understanadable as Norway wasn't facing any such threats to consider preparing for it.

The Dean

Perhaps so, but the whole tone of the meeting was one of excuses and shoulder-shrugging............... and how "prepared" do you have to be for a single gunman?

WakeUp

True but don't forget they were distracted by a bomb next to government buildings only an hour before. This is not a situation that they would have dreamed of before Friday. One attack was shocking enough for them, but two within such a short amount of time would have been unthinkable.

Norm_uk

Didn't see it but have read about it.

It's quite shocking how the police couldn't find a proper boat and didn't have the type of helicopters to land armed units on the island...apparently some people in the Norwegian forces have been complaining about this to the powers that be for years.

What a pity that dozens more died simply because some bureaucrat didn't want to fill in an extra form, request extra funding or otherwise rock the boat in their little office somewhere

That sort of thing isn't forgivable in a modern Western European country. Even in Britain where leaves and snow can stop 100 ton trains we have highly trained men who can be sent almost anywhere in the country quite quickly if needed.

N.

Paracletus

And it might be worth considering as well. Norway had something like 54 murders in an entire year some years back when I last saw statistics on it. But sure, perhaps some more crisis situation equipment, like a helicopter, would have been nice. But the majority of people are on holiday and July is a pretty relaxed month at the best of times. So the cliched descriptions floating about in various news outlets are really a pretty true representation of the place. Haven't been there for a couple of years now, but I shall be there for awhile in August, can't wait.

Had there been an available helicopter in one of their other 'big cities', I'd imagine they would not have been able to reach there any faster than the police did. Some sketchy information floating about when the police were actually alerted and when the shooter began his shooting spree.