Newly Opened Flyovers

Old Dec 15th 2013, 7:35 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Not everyone in Dubai is a western expat making tens of thousands a month.

People live in Discovery Gardens because it's the cheapest place to live on that side of town. And they can't afford JLT or the Marina or TECOM or even Al Barsha. People live there because it's the only place they can afford within reasonable reach of their workplaces, the alternative is usually commuting from Sharjah. I'm not going to judge people for living in a place where they can only afford to live. Your attitude is a bit "let them eat cake".

I agree with you that the developers should have more responsibility in providing proper access routes in/out the master planned communities but you must keep in mind that the DM is also partly responsible, after all they hold the right to approve the design for the communities. If Nakheel *****ed up the access to Discovery Gardens by providing minimal routes into a community intended to house tens of thousands of people, and sharing the same access route with a major shopping mall, then DM also *****ed up in allowing Nakheel to get away with such shoddy transportation planning.

Same with International City where for years the only route in was via a petrol station....

In the UK what happened at Discovery Gardens would never happen. The developers would never have their master plans approved by the local planning authorities without providing evidence of sufficient transportation links.

By the way I originally worked in the design sector in Dubai, as a landscape architect in a firm with a big master planning practice. We presented multiple solutions to the government sector clients and they always ignored the most practical ones in favour for the glitziest one, regardless of the consequences on day to day usability.

The men that run Dubai are focussed on making sure the city gets what they think it deserves - turning it into an expensive, fancy city that offers a high quality of life (at a price, of course) for the highly paid Emiratis. Their attitude towards the bulk of the city's population, the regular everyday working man from the South Asia and other parts of the non-Gulf middle east, has always been very much "***** you you're disposable why should we attempt to make your life easier?" Even the metro was largely driven by the belief that Dubai needed one in order to qualify as a "world class" city.

Originally Posted by jam25mack
Calm down Big Man!

There are plenty of places where 'lowly paid people' as you call them can live. Although I'm not so sure the folk who live in Disco gardens would appreciate your description of them. Either way, the residents there don't have to choose to live in Disco gardens and if they do (due to the many many problems very publically known with the place) they are bringing it on themselves. Most of the ongoing problems in DG should be the responsibility of the developers not the Government.

As for the traffic study, it will have been done, however, if the Client chooses to spend his money building a bridge into DIFC for the 'rich bankers' or into Disco gardens is entirely his choice, not the folk who undertake the traffic study!

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 7:47 am
  #17  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by Ethos83
Not everyone in Dubai is a western expat making tens of thousands a month.

People live in Discovery Gardens because it's the cheapest place to live on that side of town. And they can't afford JLT or the Marina or TECOM or even Al Barsha. People live there because it's the only place they can afford within reasonable reach of their workplaces, the alternative is usually commuting from Sharjah. I'm not going to judge people for living in a place where they can only afford to live. Your attitude is a bit "let them eat cake".

I agree with you that the developers should have more responsibility in providing proper access routes in/out the master planned communities but you must keep in mind that the DM is also partly responsible, after all they hold the right to approve the design for the communities. If Nakheel *****ed up the access to Discovery Gardens by providing minimal routes into a community intended to house tens of thousands of people, and sharing the same access route with a major shopping mall, then DM also *****ed up in allowing Nakheel to get away with such shoddy transportation planning.

Same with International City where for years the only route in was via a petrol station....

In the UK what happened at Discovery Gardens would never happen. The developers would never have their master plans approved by the local planning authorities without providing evidence of sufficient transportation links.

By the way I originally worked in the design sector in Dubai, as a landscape architect in a firm with a big master planning practice. We presented multiple solutions to the government sector clients and they always ignored the most practical ones in favour for the glitziest one, regardless of the consequences on day to day usability.

The men that run Dubai are focussed on making sure the city gets what they think it deserves - turning it into an expensive, fancy city that offers a high quality of life (at a price, of course) for the highly paid Emiratis. Their attitude towards the bulk of the city's population, the regular everyday working man from the South Asia and other parts of the non-Gulf middle east, has always been very much "***** you you're disposable why should we attempt to make your life easier?" Even the metro was largely driven by the belief that Dubai needed one in order to qualify as a "world class" city.
So what?

If people weren't willing to sit in the traffic, they wouldn't live there, if they weren't willing to live there then it'd be empty.

You moaned at me for moaning about traffic and now you're doing it but on behalf of other people?
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 8:12 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by Ethos83
People live in Discovery Gardens because it's the cheapest place to live on that side of town. And they can't afford JLT or the Marina or TECOM or even Al Barsha.
That area or "block" has :

Discovery Gardens
The Gardens
Jebel Ali Village
Furjan Villas and apartments

It is amazing that they have 2 exits between all of them.

Last edited by Maxima; Dec 15th 2013 at 8:15 am.
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 8:24 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by Maxima
That area or "block" has :

Discovery Gardens
The Gardens
Jebel Ali Village
Furjan Villas and apartments

It is amazing that they have 2 exits between all of them.
Especially when you factor in all those rich people living in the villas - it's an outrage.
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 8:32 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by Maxima
That area or "block" has :

Discovery Gardens
The Gardens
Jebel Ali Village
Furjan Villas and apartments

It is amazing that they have 2 exits between all of them.
from what i understand though this is done by design and for security, one or two ways in - think everywhere from marina to DG to Green Community etc. and there are only a couple of entrances/exits from the major roads. So if a crime is committed in the areas then the police only need to put a few roadblocks in place and the culprits can't get out.

Although with all the traffic they probably couldn't anyway.
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 8:40 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by Kix
from what i understand though this is done by design and for security, one or two ways in - think everywhere from marina to DG to Green Community etc. and there are only a couple of entrances/exits from the major roads. So if a crime is committed in the areas then the police only need to put a few roadblocks in place and the culprits can't get out.

Although with all the traffic they probably couldn't anyway.
There we have it:

Poor people steal more so get less access.

The wealthier areas will have less thieving, therefore more access.

Perfect.
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 9:01 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by Scamp
There we have it:

Poor people steal more so get less access.

The wealthier areas will have less thieving, therefore more access.

Perfect.
No mate, think Meadows and Ranches too.
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 9:50 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by Ethos83
Not everyone in Dubai is a western expat making tens of thousands a month.
And not everyone (you included) know where we all live or how much we earn. I live in a one bed apartment that costs less than those currently on the market in disco gardens and I managed to find this place with minimal hassle and have none of the issues that are associated with DG. Do I earn tens of thousands a month - none of your business!

Originally Posted by Ethos83
People live in Discovery Gardens because it's the cheapest place to live on that side of town. And they can't afford JLT or the Marina or TECOM or even Al Barsha.
Utter BS, you are describing it like it's some run down ghetto. It's not it's just designed by a dickhead. As for no alternatives, are you kidding me? There are plenty of places in Tecom and Barsha that are comparable in terms of cost. Maybe as a western expat making tens of thousands a month you wouldn't know this....

Originally Posted by Ethos83
landscape architect
Enough said on that subject....

Originally Posted by Ethos83
The men that run Dubai are focussed on making sure the city gets what they think it deserves - turning it into an expensive, fancy city that offers a high quality of life (at a price, of course) for the highly paid Emiratis. Their attitude towards the bulk of the city's population, the regular everyday working man from the South Asia and other parts of the non-Gulf middle east, has always been very much "***** you you're disposable why should we attempt to make your life easier?" Even the metro was largely driven by the belief that Dubai needed one in order to qualify as a "world class" city.
You pays your money, you makes your choice!

In my eyes as long as the workers get paid, are not misstreated and live in hospitable accommodation then whats the problem? I know this isn't always the case and when that happens they do need a swift kick in the knackers! But you must understand the Locals are building a city for themselves, not for you or I, its for them! they couldn't give two hoots what us infidels mo fo's are doing. You are here like everyone else to fill you wallet and then move on. You have the skills and they need them. You do the work and they pay you cash - end of story! At the end of the day most expats don't integrate, they drink in a Muslim country, they eat pork, they don't learn the language and the locals generally accept all of that, as you accept the fact that you are here on a temporary basis and will never get a passport.

It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, nothing more!
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 9:58 am
  #24  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Originally Posted by jam25mack
.... Maybe as a western expat making tens of thousands a month you wouldn't know this....
It may be relevant to point out that Ethos left Dubai some two years ago. Ever since he has sounded rather bitter.
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Old Dec 15th 2013, 10:30 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Newly Opened Flyovers

Most of what you wrote is irrelevant. Discovery Gardens has always been a place where people lived because it the only place they could afford if they worked in the south end of Dubai or even Abu Dhabi. Or they were placed there by their companies taking advantage of the cheapest housing available on that end of town (even a few AD firms were placing workers in Disco Gardens). Fine, they chose to live there but that's like criticising people for choosing to live in social housing. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do.

As for affordability, Dubizzle has kindly pointed out to me that the average starting price for a 1-bed in Disco Gardens is now 50K. Barsha starts at 60K and rapidly goes up and Tecom is now starting at 65K. Disco is indisputably cheaper. The 10-15k may be lump change to some people but for many in Dubai it's not.

Despite Meow's inevitable sneer I'm fascinated by Dubai and I come here for work every six weeks - two months for a few days. Maybe it's because I'm a regular visitor rather than a resident and this time around I do things like actually take the metro instead of driving and while the regional HQ is in DIFC the satellite offices are on the periphery of Dubai, my perspective on the place has changed as I've become exposed to more people outside the narrow spheres of the western expat ghettos of New Dubai or Umm Suqeim/Jumeira. Dubai is such an odd, strange place on so many levels and the social and economic dynamics unique to Dubai (or the Gulf) influence the evolution of the city in remarkably different ways than you would find in the West. Some of it is good - the rapid speed at which whole areas and infrastructure can be built is impressive and can be learnt by the nay-sayers in the UK, but others are not and I don't think it's unfair to point out any injustice in Dubai even if we're not Emiratis.

All I wanted to say is because of the sheer wealth concentrated in such a small city it wouldn't be a bad thing to let a bit more of that dribble down to the more hardworking have-nots of society, you know, the kind of people who have to struggle against huge rent and school fees increases and inflationary food prices rather than worrying about whether it's time to replace the Cayenne. And this is being said by someone who's a cold-hearted Tory. A more practical tram scheme and more social housing like the Gardens rather than more goodies for rich neighbourhoods could go down well in making Dubai a better place for more people. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it's their country, blah blah blah, expats are only visitors, yadda yadda yadda. So I'll kindly shut up now.

Originally Posted by jam25mack
And not everyone (you included) know where we all live or how much we earn. I live in a one bed apartment that costs less than those currently on the market in disco gardens and I managed to find this place with minimal hassle and have none of the issues that are associated with DG. Do I earn tens of thousands a month - none of your business!



Utter BS, you are describing it like it's some run down ghetto. It's not it's just designed by a dickhead. As for no alternatives, are you kidding me? There are plenty of places in Tecom and Barsha that are comparable in terms of cost. Maybe as a western expat making tens of thousands a month you wouldn't know this....



Enough said on that subject....



You pays your money, you makes your choice!

In my eyes as long as the workers get paid, are not misstreated and live in hospitable accommodation then whats the problem? I know this isn't always the case and when that happens they do need a swift kick in the knackers! But you must understand the Locals are building a city for themselves, not for you or I, its for them! they couldn't give two hoots what us infidels mo fo's are doing. You are here like everyone else to fill you wallet and then move on. You have the skills and they need them. You do the work and they pay you cash - end of story! At the end of the day most expats don't integrate, they drink in a Muslim country, they eat pork, they don't learn the language and the locals generally accept all of that, as you accept the fact that you are here on a temporary basis and will never get a passport.

It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, nothing more!
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