A Musician's Letter
Aug 2nd 2014, 11:31 pm
#1
Shikra
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A Musician's Letter
Brian Eno on the Israel-Gaza crisis: How can you justify images such as this? - Comment - Voices - The Independent
Worth reading
Worth reading
Aug 3rd 2014, 4:40 am
#2
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Re: A Musician's Letter
Aug 3rd 2014, 5:36 am
#3
**** it we'll do it live
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Re: A Musician's Letter
"So if we are prepared to boycott, condemn and shame the Saudis, the Qataris, the Iranians, the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Russians, the Nigerians, the Taliban, the Venezuelans, the Zimbabweans, the Sudanese, the South Sudanese, the Central African Republicans, and let’s not forget the Americans and the British"
actually I think a lot of people are willing to condemn this lot, the big difference being the quiet apparent desire for genocide from a nation that claims to be superior.
In his example its also clear to all that most of those countries are run by barbaric corrupt ****wits, Israel is at least a democracy that may have a polarized electorate but probably cant be accused of electoral fraud and malpractice. That alone make the crimes far worse
Aug 6th 2014, 10:51 pm
#4
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Re: A Musician's Letter
Israel is always held to a higher standard because it has democracy, a better legal system and has put it's own people in jail for not playing by the rules (including IDF soldiers).
British Lt. Col. Richard Kemp has said no army in history has done more to reduce civillian casualties than the IDF. Not being a military expert I cannot claim to contest or support that statement but the fact that a senior figure in a well respected and moderate professional army (ours) comes out with a statement like that makes me think.
I think the real issue here is that groups like Hamas need death to continue living...just like the settler movement doesn't want peace because it will fail as well when firm borders are agreed upon (they were already upped by Israel from the Gaza area with great difficulty).
We can all agree innocents dying is tragic so I don't think continuing to harp on about that actually helps make it less. I think both sides are becoming so hardened that it may actually come to attempted genocide (nothing that has happened there so far has come close to this no matter what pundits and propagandists say - the Kurds have suffered more than the Palestinans and were even forbidden from giving their children Kurdish names at one point by Turkey).
Ideally we will see a two state solution. If not they will simply continue to fight. I think the Arabs need to stop supporting groups like Hamas and Israel needs to really clamp down on the settlers and religious minorities in Judaism who are relentless and parasitic to what is mostly a secular state.
Both sides need to realise someone is going to have to give up land and that they can't both have it all. I think Jerusalem being Judaism's only Holy site should belong to Israel - the Muslim world revolves around Mecca and they have appropriated thousands of churches and temples in the last 1400 years and need to stop. That said I also think Arab nations should stop treating Palestinians as refugees and offer them full citizenship and integration if they choose to have it...people at some point need to just let go and move on. 750,000 Jews around the middle east did that 80 years ago...millions of East Prussians did that too. I'm sure they can as well in the interests of peace...assuming of course they believe Israel has as much right to exist and any of the 22 Arab Muslim states in the region.
N.
British Lt. Col. Richard Kemp has said no army in history has done more to reduce civillian casualties than the IDF. Not being a military expert I cannot claim to contest or support that statement but the fact that a senior figure in a well respected and moderate professional army (ours) comes out with a statement like that makes me think.
I think the real issue here is that groups like Hamas need death to continue living...just like the settler movement doesn't want peace because it will fail as well when firm borders are agreed upon (they were already upped by Israel from the Gaza area with great difficulty).
We can all agree innocents dying is tragic so I don't think continuing to harp on about that actually helps make it less. I think both sides are becoming so hardened that it may actually come to attempted genocide (nothing that has happened there so far has come close to this no matter what pundits and propagandists say - the Kurds have suffered more than the Palestinans and were even forbidden from giving their children Kurdish names at one point by Turkey).
Ideally we will see a two state solution. If not they will simply continue to fight. I think the Arabs need to stop supporting groups like Hamas and Israel needs to really clamp down on the settlers and religious minorities in Judaism who are relentless and parasitic to what is mostly a secular state.
Both sides need to realise someone is going to have to give up land and that they can't both have it all. I think Jerusalem being Judaism's only Holy site should belong to Israel - the Muslim world revolves around Mecca and they have appropriated thousands of churches and temples in the last 1400 years and need to stop. That said I also think Arab nations should stop treating Palestinians as refugees and offer them full citizenship and integration if they choose to have it...people at some point need to just let go and move on. 750,000 Jews around the middle east did that 80 years ago...millions of East Prussians did that too. I'm sure they can as well in the interests of peace...assuming of course they believe Israel has as much right to exist and any of the 22 Arab Muslim states in the region.
N.
So Israel can have its peace of cake and eat it! I am afraid it is going to be a very, very far-fetched wish for you, for the simple reason that one fifth of the human population on earth harbour incredible amount of hate towards this rogue state. All Israel has to do is blink an eye before all hell let loose. The nightmare that Israelis have long been dreading has already started looming on the horizon. The option of either giving it up willingly or be forced to face the sea.
One has to properly understand the situation in the Middle East in order to make sense of the ongoing events. The Middle East is just like a human body that has a foreign organ implanted inside it and that body has all along been in the state of rejecting it. All the events in this region the world have been witnessing are signs of this rejection. The longer this foreign body remains in the body the more killings of civilians need to be done, but there will come a time when those killings will no longer work anymore and the tide will begin to turn around and a cyclone will blow the opposite way. That will be the time when I will be enjoying watching the news.
The biggest mistake of the 20th century was the forming of the state of Israel in this region. Don’t get me wrong, I strongly believe that the Jewish people need to have their own home land, but what I strongly object to is the part of the world where that state was chosen to be. The Jewish people are westerners in their nature, their values, their culture and their way of life. The Middle East was the last place on earth that could remotely be suitable for them. Their state would had been well situated in some corners of Europe, ideally in Germany, and if that was not possible then France or England. The whole world would have been a much better place to live in if such things had actually happened.
Aug 7th 2014, 8:20 am
#5
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Re: A Musician's Letter
So Israel can have its peace of cake and eat it! I am afraid it is going to be a very, very far-fetched wish for you, for the simple reason that one fifth of the human population on earth harbour incredible amount of hate towards this rogue state. All Israel has to do is blink an eye before all hell let loose. The nightmare that Israelis have long been dreading has already started looming on the horizon. The option of either giving it up willingly or be forced to face the sea.
One has to properly understand the situation in the Middle East in order to make sense of the ongoing events. The Middle East is just like a human body that has a foreign organ implanted inside it and that body has all along been in the state of rejecting it. All the events in this region the world have been witnessing are signs of this rejection. The longer this foreign body remains in the body the more killings of civilians need to be done, but there will come a time when those killings will no longer work anymore and the tide will begin to turn around and a cyclone will blow the opposite way. That will be the time when I will be enjoying watching the news.
The biggest mistake of the 20th century was the forming of the state of Israel in this region. Don’t get me wrong, I strongly believe that the Jewish people need to have their own home land, but what I strongly object to is the part of the world where that state was chosen to be. The Jewish people are westerners in their nature, their values, their culture and their way of life. The Middle East was the last place on earth that could remotely be suitable for them. Their state would had been well situated in some corners of Europe, ideally in Germany, and if that was not possible then France or England. The whole world would have been a much better place to live in if such things had actually happened.
One has to properly understand the situation in the Middle East in order to make sense of the ongoing events. The Middle East is just like a human body that has a foreign organ implanted inside it and that body has all along been in the state of rejecting it. All the events in this region the world have been witnessing are signs of this rejection. The longer this foreign body remains in the body the more killings of civilians need to be done, but there will come a time when those killings will no longer work anymore and the tide will begin to turn around and a cyclone will blow the opposite way. That will be the time when I will be enjoying watching the news.
The biggest mistake of the 20th century was the forming of the state of Israel in this region. Don’t get me wrong, I strongly believe that the Jewish people need to have their own home land, but what I strongly object to is the part of the world where that state was chosen to be. The Jewish people are westerners in their nature, their values, their culture and their way of life. The Middle East was the last place on earth that could remotely be suitable for them. Their state would had been well situated in some corners of Europe, ideally in Germany, and if that was not possible then France or England. The whole world would have been a much better place to live in if such things had actually happened.
except that the Jews are originally from the lands they now "occupy" and were forced out into europe and elsewhere due to persecution including for long periods by Arabs.
Don't forget that Jerusalem was founded by the Jews and the Al Aqsa Mosque is built on the site of a Jewish temple that predates Islam by over 1000 years
Aug 7th 2014, 9:52 pm
#6
Shikra
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Re: A Musician's Letter
except that the Jews are originally from the lands they now "occupy" and were forced out into europe and elsewhere due to persecution including for long periods by Arabs.
Don't forget that Jerusalem was founded by the Jews and the Al Aqsa Mosque is built on the site of a Jewish temple that predates Islam by over 1000 years
Don't forget that Jerusalem was founded by the Jews and the Al Aqsa Mosque is built on the site of a Jewish temple that predates Islam by over 1000 years
One might argue, if we dig the history more, there might be another race used to live in this Land of Jerusalem which might be thinking to kill all Israelis once they become powerful as Israelis are right now.
Also let us use the same argument all over the world and let the different races start killing each other because they were forced out by someone X....
The race belonging to red Indians should eliminate all whites and the list goes on and on.
This doesn't seems to make sense at all, specially when we claim that we belong to the most civilized times in the history. Turn the wheel again and think about a solution that promotes love and unity among all of us!
Aug 7th 2014, 10:08 pm
#7
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Re: A Musician's Letter
I thought it was a great letter.
Aug 8th 2014, 7:31 am
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Re: A Musician's Letter
except that the Jews are originally from the lands they now "occupy" and were forced out into europe and elsewhere due to persecution including for long periods by Arabs.
Don't forget that Jerusalem was founded by the Jews and the Al Aqsa Mosque is built on the site of a Jewish temple that predates Islam by over 1000 years
Don't forget that Jerusalem was founded by the Jews and the Al Aqsa Mosque is built on the site of a Jewish temple that predates Islam by over 1000 years
Let me show you how horribly illogical your argument is by giving you this Close to Your Heart example. Imagine this scenario; Silvio Berlusconi one day stands up in the united nations assembly and says, you know what, according to Inselaffen’s logic England should return back to Italy because it was part of the Roman empire, and after all, my ancestors the Romans ruled over England for nearly 400 YEARS, far more than the Jewish ever ruled over Jerusalem! Imagine if the united nations was to head this proposal with Saudi Arabia giving it full financial support. Italians would then come from all over the world and make home in England and drive the English out of their homes and put them in a small area, say around Brighton and call it the Brighton strip. Impose air, land and sea blockage on them and if they complain then bomb the hell out them and butcher some 600 English children as a punishment, with the Saudis all along saying, Italy has the right to defend herself. How do you like that????
Actually with this logic of yours I seem to have a solution to the Middle east problem. How about making a deal with the Arabs. Ask them to give away Palestine to the Israels and in return give Spain and Portugal to the Arabs, because after all, the Arabs lived and ruled over those countries for nearly 700 YEARS producing magnificent results for humanity, and That happened not thousands of years ago, but merely 600 years ago. I am sure the Moroccans would go, Oh yes please, thank you very much!
Now since your knowledge of the Islamic history seems to be, hmmmm… shall we say embarrassingly moderate , I’d suggest that you have a listen to this small piece of Radio chat by a profound British MP, I nickname him George the Lion’s heart, because not only that he speaks like a lion, he looks like one too:
Aug 8th 2014, 8:27 am
#9
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Re: A Musician's Letter
They wouldn't, by any chance, happen to belong to a religion which proclaims itself to be the religion of peace, would they?
Aug 8th 2014, 9:58 am
#10
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Re: A Musician's Letter
Gorgeous George is not a fan of Israel:
Aug 8th 2014, 10:42 am
#11
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Re: A Musician's Letter
So Israel can have its peace of cake and eat it! I am afraid it is going to be a very, very far-fetched wish for you, for the simple reason that one fifth of the human population on earth harbour incredible amount of hate towards this rogue state. All Israel has to do is blink an eye before all hell let loose. The nightmare that Israelis have long been dreading has already started looming on the horizon. The option of either giving it up willingly or be forced to face the sea.
One has to properly understand the situation in the Middle East in order to make sense of the ongoing events. The Middle East is just like a human body that has a foreign organ implanted inside it and that body has all along been in the state of rejecting it. All the events in this region the world have been witnessing are signs of this rejection. The longer this foreign body remains in the body the more killings of civilians need to be done, but there will come a time when those killings will no longer work anymore and the tide will begin to turn around and a cyclone will blow the opposite way. That will be the time when I will be enjoying watching the news.
One has to properly understand the situation in the Middle East in order to make sense of the ongoing events. The Middle East is just like a human body that has a foreign organ implanted inside it and that body has all along been in the state of rejecting it. All the events in this region the world have been witnessing are signs of this rejection. The longer this foreign body remains in the body the more killings of civilians need to be done, but there will come a time when those killings will no longer work anymore and the tide will begin to turn around and a cyclone will blow the opposite way. That will be the time when I will be enjoying watching the news.
Speaks volumes about you and the way in which you interpret your religion.
This place will never see peace in our lifetime (that is the Middle East, somewhere you don't seem to have much first hand experience of...Watching Al Jazeera or listening in at Finsbury Mosque doesn't count). Muslim countries in the region too busy scoring points against each other.
Religion and religious clowns like yourself have a lot to answer for...for example, how many have been killed in Sunni v Shia disputes (and this goes for all religions)?
How many Palestinians have been killed compared to Iraqis or Syrians in the same time (that's a bit if a rhetorical question, I work with Syrians and Iraqis and it's awful what they are going through)?
You have a very biased view on these events, I'll put that down to the brainwashing you have been subject to. I really do pity you.
On a side note...what is your view on what is going on in Iraq?
Aug 8th 2014, 4:00 pm
#12
Shikra
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Re: A Musician's Letter
So you'll enjoy watching Israelis being massacred?
Religion and religious clowns like yourself have a lot to answer for...for example, how many have been killed in Sunni v Shia disputes (and this goes for all religions)?
How many Palestinians have been killed compared to Iraqis or Syrians in the same time (that's a bit if a rhetorical question, I work with Syrians and Iraqis and it's awful what they are going through)?
You have a very biased view on these events, I'll put that down to the brainwashing you have been subject to. I really do pity you.
On a side note...what is your view on what is going on in Iraq?
Religion and religious clowns like yourself have a lot to answer for...for example, how many have been killed in Sunni v Shia disputes (and this goes for all religions)?
How many Palestinians have been killed compared to Iraqis or Syrians in the same time (that's a bit if a rhetorical question, I work with Syrians and Iraqis and it's awful what they are going through)?
You have a very biased view on these events, I'll put that down to the brainwashing you have been subject to. I really do pity you.
On a side note...what is your view on what is going on in Iraq?
How many have been killed in non-religious massacres, count them for me and let us compare. You seem to have no figures of massacres that originate due to natural resource disputes and power-gain (as history proves and repeats!). Have a look at the Babylonians and Romans, Ottomans ....list goes on.
You ask about the view on Iraq, you talk about sectarian clashes. Let me ask you something about Iraq. what was the point behind putting all the efforts in catching Saddam Hussein (after such a struggle!) and then in the end giving it in the hands of Shia muslim sect to carry on the trial and let him get executed from their hands...and oh, the video of hanging just slipped out so that every sunny muslim sect may watch how the insane Shias hanged Mr. Saddam. What a beautiful politics to keep the sectarian clashes going on.
And then they talk about bringing democracy and peace in Middle East, the civilized and the wise ones...
Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Why mock about religions in Hollywood and create a state in middle east based on history? and kill so many which in turn is creating more enemies than friends.
Aug 8th 2014, 4:08 pm
#13
Shikra
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Re: A Musician's Letter
There are more questions which non-religious clowns have to answer than the religious ones. So let them finish first.
Aug 8th 2014, 4:35 pm
#14
Hit 16's
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Re: A Musician's Letter
Yep. The non-religious have a huge variety of questions to answer because they enquire without the constraint of others telling them how to think. The religious need to answer just a few very simple questions, but those questions account for the majority of easily-preventable human suffering in the world. Let's try just one: If your god is so great, why do you feel the need--as mere humans--to persecute those who don't believe as you believe?
Aug 8th 2014, 5:19 pm
#15
Shikra
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Re: A Musician's Letter
Now my turn, was World War I because of religion? World War II? and I am sure, WWIII won't be as well.
How about the history, mass murdering was always a consequence of religious issues or because of thirst to become the almighty powerful?
To mock on anything is very easy, but to find a logically true answer for any issue needs patience and struggle.