Mr. Angry
May 24th 2009, 12:48 pm
#31
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 857
Re: Mr. Angry
P.s; Saying Holland to the Netherlands is the same as saying Queensland to Australia, fyi 
May 24th 2009, 12:51 pm
#32
banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,611
Re: Mr. Angry
So holland is a state of the netherlands?
Interesting..
Interesting..
May 24th 2009, 1:02 pm
#34
Remember
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: The Land of Sindbad
Posts: 1,275
Re: Mr. Angry
You could appeal directly to KLM with the circumstances, especially if the denial was written in a letter or email to show them, but KLM is not obliged to give any refund.
Don't get me wrong- I have total sympathy for Lionheart and family and have zero compassion for KLM anymore due to past experience but there is no space for situation shifting to them.
May 24th 2009, 1:04 pm
#35
Remember
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: The Land of Sindbad
Posts: 1,275
Re: Mr. Angry
Noord Holland and Zuid Holland are Provinces and are not indicative of the country being referred to as Holland, The Netherlands or the Lowlands. i am also Dutch and know that if you are asked where you are from by an Arab, you will respond as 'Hollandi' and they wont ask you if that is North or South!
May 24th 2009, 1:10 pm
#36
banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,611
Re: Mr. Angry
Anyone got a hair to split??
May 24th 2009, 1:20 pm
#37
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 857
Re: Mr. Angry
Noord Holland and Zuid Holland are Provinces and are not indicative of the country being referred to as Holland, The Netherlands or the Lowlands. i am also Dutch and know that if you are asked where you are from by an Arab, you will respond as 'Hollandi' and they wont ask you if that is North or South!
Anyway, who cares
May 24th 2009, 1:23 pm
#38
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 820
Re: Mr. Angry
Noord Holland and Zuid Holland are Provinces and are not indicative of the country being referred to as Holland, The Netherlands or the Lowlands. i am also Dutch and know that if you are asked where you are from by an Arab, you will respond as 'Hollandi' and they wont ask you if that is North or South!
May 24th 2009, 1:30 pm
#39
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 857
Re: Mr. Angry
You are not really helping our situation but thanks for bothering to read about our plight. I doubt we would be allowed to travel only to Amsterdam if our ticket says Manchester via A/dam. Moreover the Dutch Visa Office will ask why we didn't get a UK visa. Back to square one.
Besides, there are still options for you. You could try to contact your own embassy, or the Dutch one regarding the Schengen visa and try to explain your situation. The person in charge of the visa's over there is called Ms. Tinus.
If you really cannot get any visa then you always have the option to go anyway under the European law for freedom of travel*. You just need to convince your airline, but if you mention it beforehand to the right people at KLM that shouldn't be a problem.
With regards to your ticket, no you will not be allowed to only travel to Amsterdam if you have a ticket to Manchester. There are two options you could try; explain your situation to KLM and hope that they will change it to the Netherlands only and cancel the 2 extra legs to Manchester. Second is, provided your wife does not need a transit visa for the UK, fly to Manchester anyway, and take a cheap flight to AMS or anywhere else in Europe.
The official document states:
Judges; C. Stix-Hackl, Advocate General; H.A. Rühl,
Principal Administrator, for the Registrar, has given a judgment
on 25 July 2002, in which it has ruled:
On a proper construction of Article 3 of Council Directive 68/
360/EEC of 15 October 1968 on the abolition of restrictions
on movement and residence within the Community for workers
of Member States and their families, Article 3 of Council
Directive 73/148/EEC of 21 May 1973 on the abolition of
restrictions on movement and residence within the Community
for nationals of Member States with regard to establishment
and the provision of services and Council Regulation (EC)
No 2317/95 of 25 September 1995 determining the third
countries whose nationals must be in possession of visas when
crossing the external borders of the Member States, read in the
light of the principle of proportionality, a Member State may
not send back at the border a third country national who is
married to a national of a Member State and attempts to enter
its territory without being in possession of a valid identity card
or passport or, if necessary, a visa, where he is able to prove his
identity and the conjugal ties and there is no evidence to
establish that he represents a risk to the requirements of public
policy, public security or public health within the meaning of
Article 10 of Directive 68/360 and Article 8 of Directive 73/148
Principal Administrator, for the Registrar, has given a judgment
on 25 July 2002, in which it has ruled:
On a proper construction of Article 3 of Council Directive 68/
360/EEC of 15 October 1968 on the abolition of restrictions
on movement and residence within the Community for workers
of Member States and their families, Article 3 of Council
Directive 73/148/EEC of 21 May 1973 on the abolition of
restrictions on movement and residence within the Community
for nationals of Member States with regard to establishment
and the provision of services and Council Regulation (EC)
No 2317/95 of 25 September 1995 determining the third
countries whose nationals must be in possession of visas when
crossing the external borders of the Member States, read in the
light of the principle of proportionality, a Member State may
not send back at the border a third country national who is
married to a national of a Member State and attempts to enter
its territory without being in possession of a valid identity card
or passport or, if necessary, a visa, where he is able to prove his
identity and the conjugal ties and there is no evidence to
establish that he represents a risk to the requirements of public
policy, public security or public health within the meaning of
Article 10 of Directive 68/360 and Article 8 of Directive 73/148
At least one thing the EU is good for.
Last edited by Euc-; May 24th 2009 at 1:36 pm.
May 24th 2009, 1:45 pm
#40
Concierge
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 29,625
Re: Mr. Angry
Hold on a minute- this has nothing to do with KLM and there is no reason why it should be reported to a newspaper. When the ticket was booked, presumably at the lowest rate possible, it was accepted that it was not changeable.
You could appeal directly to KLM with the circumstances, especially if the denial was written in a letter or email to show them, but KLM is not obliged to give any refund.
Don't get me wrong- I have total sympathy for Lionheart and family and have zero compassion for KLM anymore due to past experience but there is no space for situation shifting to them.
You could appeal directly to KLM with the circumstances, especially if the denial was written in a letter or email to show them, but KLM is not obliged to give any refund.
Don't get me wrong- I have total sympathy for Lionheart and family and have zero compassion for KLM anymore due to past experience but there is no space for situation shifting to them.
May 24th 2009, 1:55 pm
#41
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 820
Re: Mr. Angry
Thanks for the information. My point about having been refused a UK visa is that, when they see our tickets to Manchester, they are bound to ask why we didn't get a UK visa. They will then probably reject our application on the same grounds. Oh joy!
May 24th 2009, 1:59 pm
#42
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 857
Re: Mr. Angry
Then make a flight reservation to AMS to put with your application for the Schengen visa, and when it's granted you show them your manchester ticket, if they ask you something you just say that you are also planning to do some travelling in the EU, and your going to the UK embassy now to apply for the UK visa.
May 24th 2009, 3:57 pm
#43
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,187
Re: Mr. Angry
Hold on a minute- this has nothing to do with KLM and there is no reason why it should be reported to a newspaper. When the ticket was booked, presumably at the lowest rate possible, it was accepted that it was not changeable.
You could appeal directly to KLM with the circumstances, especially if the denial was written in a letter or email to show them, but KLM is not obliged to give any refund.
Don't get me wrong- I have total sympathy for Lionheart and family and have zero compassion for KLM anymore due to past experience but there is no space for situation shifting to them.
You could appeal directly to KLM with the circumstances, especially if the denial was written in a letter or email to show them, but KLM is not obliged to give any refund.
Don't get me wrong- I have total sympathy for Lionheart and family and have zero compassion for KLM anymore due to past experience but there is no space for situation shifting to them.
MM, xx
May 24th 2009, 4:15 pm
#44
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 820
Re: Mr. Angry
