Irishbeekeeper

scrubbedexpat141

TO be honest the whole thing has ended up quite tragically.

(Slightly more than) Half the Scots voted No, some are happy with what's happening, some are moaning.
(Slightly less than) Half the Scots voted Yes, some are actually not that bothered with what's happening now, some are going ape shit like people care what they think.

The fact of the matter is this:

Scotland voted No.
Scotland is now laughing and joking and pointing fingers and complaining and saying what was said was wrong, saying what's happening now is laughable, saying that Westminster is horseshit, saying that magically, in a matter of months since people wanted to be part of the UK - the UK is now shit and run by liars.

The whole thing is ****ing tragic and the really, genuinely sad thing about it all is not that mud-slinging pre, during and post referendum, it's not the childish "we didn't want it anyway" attitude of some, it's not the "we don't want you still with us anyway" attitude of others...it's the fact that the fat moronic halfwit who forced such a divisive and damaging issue appears to have just ****ed off to smell the sweat on his balls.

The whole thing is now like being at primary school. It's worse point-scoring now than during the campaigns.

shiva

the snp was formed in 1934, the home rule movement dates to 1853 and the idea of independence is older than the union itself and yet apparently this is a new issue entirely the fault of one man.

there was also a devolution referendum in 1979 and 1997.

salmond may be many things but the originator of the call for independence he is not

scrubbedexpat141

He definitely championed the idea for this referendum. Which is what I was talking about.

scot47

I think Scamp and his pals should expect to have raised blood pressure for some time after May7. There will be a sizeable contingent of SNP MPs down there !

scrubbedexpat141

Same shit, different badge.

SNP, Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Monster Raving Looney (I assume that's your chosen party) - they're all much of a muchness nowadays.

shiva

And Winnie Ewing championed the one 1979.

A huge proportion of the scottish people wanted a referendum, certainly all of those for independence but also a great deal who are against the notion.

Blaming one man because the media targeted him and he was the leader of the snp misses the whole point. He was elected on a mandate to hold a referendum apart from anything else.

The demonising of the snp leadership and snp supporters is precisely why the SNP is now the 3rd largest political party by paid up membership in the UK and precisely why they will take more Westminster seats than they have ever had in the past. I personally am dubious of the polls showing 50+ seats but even with a massive last minute turn around they are set for an unprecedented success.

The political landscape has shifted in Scotland and instead of demonising it's figure heads time would be better spent asking the question why the landscape has shifted so radically and rapidly.

Who will be blamed after the general election? Sturgeon ? Or whatever percentage of the population vote snp?

It's far past time to recognise that for 300 years a sizable portion of the Scottish populous has not been happy with the union and that since 1997 an overwhelming majority wants significant changes to the way scotlands affairs are run.

It's simply incongrous to be a supporter of democracy and simultaneously call a democratic notion divisive and damaging. The 97 devolution vote was 74% in favour and we all know what the result of a devo max vote would be.

Whilst you may personally feel that the change in politics is tragic the real tragedy is that so many voters feel let down by the other political parties that the SNP has seen a frankly ridiculous swing in the polls. Regardless of the actual votes that get cast it's quite clear that there is a huge level of dissatisfaction with the status quo.

scot47

But just pinpointing an individual is easier. The simpletons who fall for the tabloid spin do not want to think. They do not want to have their preconceptions challenged.

Present Salmond as the horrid bogeyman and leave it at that. Now add to him young Nicola and paint her as the one who wishes to destroy all that is held dear by the middle classes of the Home Counties.

Personally I look forward to the day when we follow the path of Iceland, where they have been putting bankers in prison. I can't see that going down well with the Daily Mail, Daily Express or Telegraph. Even those pinkos in the Guardian might be alarmed at that !

scrubbedexpat141

Interesting stuff.

I don't think, in general terms that this general election will really be that ground breaking. I won't be surprised to see lots of SNP seats in parliament, they should be - like any Welsh (I can't even begin to guess how to spell the party name Plyd Cymru or something?) or Northern Irish party should be providing representation for that region. Just like you'd expect Salisbury to vote Conservative, as it has since the 1920's.

Yes, the example is a much, much smaller area / region, but I won't be surprised to see SNP succeed at the general election because this referendum has almost certainly push all of the Yes voters to see SNP as a real alternative (well, those who didn't already) to the usual suspects. It might also swing the vote for those who were marginal. It might also swing the vote for those who now seem to think that politics pre-referendum was rosy perfection and now it's just liars in London.

A quick google tells me that Scottish National (assuming it's the same SNP) had 6 seats for the last term. I imagine that will rise quite nicely, and why not? I don't see a problem as it's regional representation which is what the election is all about, you vote regionally for who you want to represent your area. Obviously there is consideration for the bigger picture, but again, that makes sense and will likely tie in with your views on what's being discussed locally as well as nationally.

UKIP had 2 seats. Look at the column inches they are getting, it's mental. If I were you (not you, but 'you') I'd be more concerned at how many seats those helmets might get.

I think Salmond's a bit of a knobhead. I think it was far too easy for him to come across, be portrayed and sound like he was on a one man mission. Now, I'll take your point that he's one man and couldn't have done anything without the wider support - that's a very valid point.

I think the election is only going to be good for Scotland, but the problem will be quite simple;

SNP get lots more influence - good, everyone will be happy....right? Will it just become some sort of utopia or will a lot of the simple things stay controlled by London? (I don't know).
SNP doesn't - lots, and I mean LOTS, of unhappy people continuing to point fingers at London etc.

If you wish to call me a simpleton, just say it directly.

Don't judge people by what newspaper they read, it's literally the most boring thing that happens regularly on this bored. The fact is I'm sure someone on here will cast some stereotype about someone else based on what newspaper they 'read' (likely online, rather than print to be honest). It's pathetic.

Although, it might be nice to see some bankers in prison, but I'm not sure what for?

Garbatellamike

To provide comfort services for bikers serving life maybe a good start...........

mikewot

Ah yes, advocating male rape means you must be a prison reformer.

scot47

Transferring the inmates of the House of Lords to a maximum security prison could also be a good move.

shiva

we're not talking a nice wee rise here we are talking about the very real possibility that the SNP will hold the balance of power to form a coalition government in westminster and the total wipeout of labour and the conservatives in scotland.

The daily mail et al are livid because the nationalists have a very real shot at sitting in cabinet meetings at No 10. with the very real power to get their own way.

Of the 59 scottish seats available various polls put the snp at a low of taking 27 of them and a high of taking 57 with most polls taking an average at a likely 40 odd seats. Just 20 years ago numbers like that would have had the SNP unilaterally declaring independence (they are highly unlikely to do so whatever the result this election).

Its very likely that the SNP will become the 3rd largest party in parliament with maybe twice the number of seats as the liberals

One possible outcome is that the conservatives and Liberals will not win a single seat in scotland thus raising the question in the event of a further liberal conservative government just how democratic is the UK and how exactly Scotland can be governed morally without a single MP from the governing parties having been elected.

Labour who have pretty much been a guaranteed scottish majority for decades face a prospect where they are a minority in scottish politics and possibly a very small minority.

to give you an idea of the massive change see below

here

or here

Garbatellamike

Agree with that but have to ask why are the Houses of Commons not going with them? Just as many crooks in the Lower House!

DXBtoDOH

Well, well, well, it's all very interesting.

It does highlight the flaws of the FPP system we have in the UK. The SNP will go from being very underrepresented to very overrepresented. They will end up with the vast majority of Scottish seats despite unlikely to score over 50% of the vote within Scotland. The "unionists" parties are still likely to take an outright majority of votes cast in Scotland but because they are divided into different parties, they lose not just seats but political influence.

Likewise, the UKIP in England will be vastly underrepresented relative to their share of the vote (I leave it to you to decide if that's a good or bad thing).

I do wonder how different it all would have been had Gordon Brown won the 2010 election and was the one facing reelection today? The dramatic jump in support for SNP in the 2011 election seemed to be a direct reaction to the Tories' victory in 2010. Should Labour claw their way back to power, whether this year or in the future, will support for the SNP decline?

Are we entering a brave new future where the SNP is the dominant party in Scotland due to FPP and uses their seats in Westminster to manipulate English affairs and prevent an outright Tory majority, but regularly fails to win independence referendums within Scotland? I daresay there's quite a few people both in England and Scotland who would be happy with that scenario as it implies a near permanent left government for the UK as a whole. Alternatively, it could make relationships north and south of the border more bitter. We will see.