Norm_uk

This is surely a matter of interpretation. This cleric would have to be a learned man (in his faith) to get his position.

It's amazing how the Saudi woman hating cleric can go to the Koran/Hadiths and come away with eternally just reasons to keep women in their place and another person can go to the Koran/Hadits and come away knowing it's wrong to harass women.

I understand their are a lot of decent religious people but I cannot help but view religion with suspicion if it's so easy to twist in either direction. If this cleric is totally wrong there should be a huge outcry...

N.

Norm_uk

Is this the same chap as Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr? He was most definately a Muslim if it is the same fellow, probably the first Muslim born in Medina. The third nephew of Aisha, who was one of Muhammad's wives?

The cleric in the article names him as a famous warrior - this fits Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr perfectly as he participated in Muslim campaigns against the Byzantines and Sassanids.

Or does he refer to Zubayr ibn al-Awam? He was a famous war leader too who helped expand the Muslim empire in those days...

N.

Irishbeekeeper

Yes I agree, but hasnt that always been the case? People twist a verse or a part of a scripture to serve their own purpose.
As far as this particular example goes, I dont think there would be an outcry in the muslim world since the general feeling I get from most of my muslim friends is bemusement or "now what are those dinky arabs upto!?" i.e. none that I know of take this guy seriously

I have always maintained I am not a scholar nor a very knowledgeable man. I was merely pointing out that this was not a Quranic example when it was mentioned. I do not know which Zubair was referred to here but I do know of an example of a certain Zubair (who later turned Muslim, but was not one then at the time of the incident) who stopped his wife physically from going to the mosque as she had turned muslim before him. He later became one as well and was repentant of his earlier actions.

However having said all of that, I must make a statement here : any man who says that baby girls should not be left alone with their fathers as they might become objects of desire, has got nothing but sex on his mind and the ONLY action I would take around him would be to keep MY children away from him. Other than that, I really wouldnt give his sputterings any heed.

redShark

Quran speaks of itself as a message form the creator. It is a book that contains,among other things, stories, remarks, injunctions, reflections, and statements. It asks the believers to look into it and try to make sense of it in the same way they would look into the universe and try to make sense of the phenomenons in it (Quran use the Arabic word Tadabur). Therefore, just like there exist many different scientific interpretations of some phenoumenuns in the univers, there also exist different interpretations of some verses in the Quran.

Worth mentioning here that I have never come across a book that claims divinity and at the same time asks the followers to use their minds for the purpose of discovering the creator and the truth behind the creation, like Quran does. All other ‘religious’ books that I have looked into ask their followers to use their hearts and emotions for that purpose. If anybody can disprove me on this point he/she I am ready to consider.

mentalist

Instead of trying to blind us with vague Islamic rhetoric, please quote the exact wording from your Holy book where it "asks the followers to use their minds for the purpose of discovering the creator and the truth behind the creation", as I've not found it.

The Dean

It's just after the bit where it says you must beat your wife and shag your daughter............

Bahtatboy

........ and before the bit where it tells you to kill all those who don't believe the same as you do.

redShark

Yours is just about worthy of replying to. Here is some examples you requested:

“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)
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“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.” (Quran 51:47)
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In this following verse the creator of Time and Space is indicating to the humans to use factual interpolation technique to realize him


“Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of night and day, and the ships which run upon the sea with that which is of use to men, and the water which Allah sendeth down from the sky, thereby reviving the earth after its death, and dispersing all kinds of beasts therein, and (in) the ordinance of the winds, and the clouds obedient between heaven and earth: are signs (of Allah's Sovereignty) for people who have sense. (Quran 2:164)

The Dean

Allah created "obedient" clouds?

In that case, can you ask him to make it stop raining before the rainy season causes floods, devastation and widespread loss of life in places like Bangladesh, Philippines, etc?

Millsyisland

He also created disobedient clouds. He's just a bit embarrassed about it so didn't mention it in his book.

flares

'Book him, Danno' (Hawaii 5:0)

Bahtatboy

Translation:

There is the earth and the rest of the universe. The earth orbits the sun. Man made some ships. It rains. When it rains in the desert, plants which have been dormant bloom. Animals seek shelter when it rains. Sometimes its windy. There are clouds in the earth's atmosphere. Therefore Allah created those things and controls them.

Yeah, I can dig that.