View Poll Results: Are you more of less racist since coming to the gulf
Absolutely - I now answer to Malcolm Little
1
4.76%
I'm less tolerant of those horizontal queueing bastards
5
23.81%
Well, if you can't beat them you might as well join them - I now use my hazards in the fog
2
9.52%
Not really - but I'm just more aware of the boxes I put people in
5
23.81%
I turn a blind eye to all of this as long as someone puts petrol in my tank for me
2
9.52%
I'm more tolerant - people here get a hard time for no reason
1
4.76%
No change.
5
23.81%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll
More of less racist
May 9th 2011, 2:46 pm
#1
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Disneyland, Dubai
Posts: 15,887
More of less racist
Has moving to the Middle East made you more of less racist. Now, it would appear that we all have different personal definitions of racism so we shall use that of my employer. Sadly, we don't define racist, so we shall go with racial discrimination:
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life
Last edited by Millhouse; May 9th 2011 at 2:55 pm. Reason: typo. why else?
May 9th 2011, 3:32 pm
#2
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,370
Re: More of less racist
I'm more "culturalist" if there is such a thing....I have no preference when it comes to race except perhaps I prefer the look of women from some parts of the world in general and not others.
Better change the title of the poll - race and culture are two different things.
Better change the title of the poll - race and culture are two different things.
May 9th 2011, 3:43 pm
#3
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Disneyland, Dubai
Posts: 15,887
Re: More of less racist
Race and culture are so intertwined it's unreal. Sure, there are exceptions - Chinese Americans for instance, or some Pakistani Brits. But, even in those cases when you scratch the surface, of say a second generation Pakistani Brit, you find that they are living with their inlaws. Race and Culture are the same.
Take BC as an example, she moved to the gulf just as clocks were invented. She is a brit, and yet, even after all these years she hasn't really taken on the culture.
May 9th 2011, 3:48 pm
#4
Concierge
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 29,625
Re: More of less racist
[QUOTE=Millhouse;9352778]I love the semantics Norm. But, franky, that is rubbish.
Race and culture are so intertwined it's unreal. Sure, there are exceptions - Chinese Americans for instance, or some Pakistani Brits. But, even in those cases when you scratch the surface, of say a second generation Pakistani Brit, you find that they are living with their inlaws. Race and Culture are the same.
Take BC as an example, she moved to the gulf just as clocks were invented. She is a brit, and yet, even after all these years she hasn't really taken on the culture.[/QUOTE]
but I do understand the culture, however I am yet to race off to the local mosque for integration
Race and culture are so intertwined it's unreal. Sure, there are exceptions - Chinese Americans for instance, or some Pakistani Brits. But, even in those cases when you scratch the surface, of say a second generation Pakistani Brit, you find that they are living with their inlaws. Race and Culture are the same.
Take BC as an example, she moved to the gulf just as clocks were invented. She is a brit, and yet, even after all these years she hasn't really taken on the culture.[/QUOTE]
but I do understand the culture, however I am yet to race off to the local mosque for integration
May 9th 2011, 4:42 pm
#5
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,370
Re: More of less racist
I love the semantics Norm. But, franky, that is rubbish.
Race and culture are so intertwined it's unreal. Sure, there are exceptions - Chinese Americans for instance, or some Pakistani Brits. But, even in those cases when you scratch the surface, of say a second generation Pakistani Brit, you find that they are living with their inlaws. Race and Culture are the same.
Take BC as an example, she moved to the gulf just as clocks were invented. She is a brit, and yet, even after all these years she hasn't really taken on the culture.
Race and culture are so intertwined it's unreal. Sure, there are exceptions - Chinese Americans for instance, or some Pakistani Brits. But, even in those cases when you scratch the surface, of say a second generation Pakistani Brit, you find that they are living with their inlaws. Race and Culture are the same.
Take BC as an example, she moved to the gulf just as clocks were invented. She is a brit, and yet, even after all these years she hasn't really taken on the culture.
Many people of the same race will tend to be of the same culture due to accident of birth and growing up in the same region as people who look and behave the same but that's it. If you say race and culture are the same you are saying that people of different skin colours behave differently because of their skin colour (because race is mostly a description of skin colour, hair and eye and nose shape)...and I earnestly hope that is not what you are suggesting because given what we call race makes up less a few % of the human genome. People of the same family can have more genetic differences than people of the same race. Some biologists even question the concept of race. Usually only Nazi types will give credence to race and culture being the same...good excuse to start wiping out anyone who doesn't make the fuhrer's friend list.
My goodness your statement is worrying - I hope it's just a case of you not thinking it through and actually meaning people of the same race tend to share the same culture because of growing up around each other.
N.
May 9th 2011, 5:34 pm
#6
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,096
Re: More of less racist
More anti-Scot than I ever was in Blighty. Does that count?
May 9th 2011, 5:43 pm
#7
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Riyadh.
Posts: 1,899
Re: More of less racist
I've stayed out this debate, as I generally tend to do when it comes to discussing race and culture, but just going on record to say I think Norm is on the right lines.
The other factor to consider is religion. Which is different again to race and although heavier intertwined with culture, these are still three separate elements that go into studying a complex issue.
Racially, I'm Asian. In the British definition ( Indian sub continent rather than American definition - the Far East / Oriental ).
Culturally, I'm British. Brought up there, educated there, worked there most of my life.
Religion wise, I'm Muslim, but disassociate myself from this lot here in Saudi, or even the ones from Pakistan etc, as I think they have it wrong on a lot of levels.
So, generally speaking, when we stereotype, we take into account all three aspects , or as many of them as we know about.
But, here's the crux of it all - and I'm not sure everyone understands this - if you are a racist / bigot / whatever-ist, then its YOUR issue, your baggage to carry around, your hatred, and ultimately, your own problem which will get in your own way.
So deal with it.
The other factor to consider is religion. Which is different again to race and although heavier intertwined with culture, these are still three separate elements that go into studying a complex issue.
Racially, I'm Asian. In the British definition ( Indian sub continent rather than American definition - the Far East / Oriental ).
Culturally, I'm British. Brought up there, educated there, worked there most of my life.
Religion wise, I'm Muslim, but disassociate myself from this lot here in Saudi, or even the ones from Pakistan etc, as I think they have it wrong on a lot of levels.
So, generally speaking, when we stereotype, we take into account all three aspects , or as many of them as we know about.
But, here's the crux of it all - and I'm not sure everyone understands this - if you are a racist / bigot / whatever-ist, then its YOUR issue, your baggage to carry around, your hatred, and ultimately, your own problem which will get in your own way.
So deal with it.
May 9th 2011, 6:14 pm
#8
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 2,675
Re: More of less racist
But, here's the crux of it all - and I'm not sure everyone understands this - if you are a racist / bigot / whatever-ist, then its YOUR issue, your baggage to carry around, your hatred, and ultimately, your own problem which will get in your own way
hmmm definitely food for thought. I have to admit, had not thought about it in that way....it is true though.
But what to do about those issues that have led a person to think the way they do?
hmmm definitely food for thought. I have to admit, had not thought about it in that way....it is true though.
But what to do about those issues that have led a person to think the way they do?
May 9th 2011, 7:30 pm
#9
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,096
Re: More of less racist
But, here's the crux of it all - and I'm not sure everyone understands this - if you are a racist / bigot / whatever-ist, then its YOUR issue, your baggage to carry around, your hatred, and ultimately, your own problem which will get in your own way.
So deal with it.
So deal with it.
May 9th 2011, 8:39 pm
#10
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Disneyland, Dubai
Posts: 15,887
Re: More of less racist
[QUOTE=Blue Cat;9352792]
I didn't say you don't understand it. I said you don't follow it - you confirmed my post...
I love the semantics Norm. But, franky, that is rubbish.
Race and culture are so intertwined it's unreal. Sure, there are exceptions - Chinese Americans for instance, or some Pakistani Brits. But, even in those cases when you scratch the surface, of say a second generation Pakistani Brit, you find that they are living with their inlaws. Race and Culture are the same.
Take BC as an example, she moved to the gulf just as clocks were invented. She is a brit, and yet, even after all these years she hasn't really taken on the culture.[/QUOTE]
but I do understand the culture, however I am yet to race off to the local mosque for integration
Race and culture are so intertwined it's unreal. Sure, there are exceptions - Chinese Americans for instance, or some Pakistani Brits. But, even in those cases when you scratch the surface, of say a second generation Pakistani Brit, you find that they are living with their inlaws. Race and Culture are the same.
Take BC as an example, she moved to the gulf just as clocks were invented. She is a brit, and yet, even after all these years she hasn't really taken on the culture.[/QUOTE]
but I do understand the culture, however I am yet to race off to the local mosque for integration
May 9th 2011, 9:10 pm
#11
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Disneyland, Dubai
Posts: 15,887
Re: More of less racist
Race and culture are not the same at all, semantics or not to suggest that is "rubbish".
Many people of the same race will tend to be of the same culture due to accident of birth and growing up in the same region as people who look and behave the same but that's it. If you say race and culture are the same you are saying that people of different skin colours behave differently because of their skin colour (because race is mostly a description of skin colour, hair and eye and nose shape)...and I earnestly hope that is not what you are suggesting because given what we call race makes up less a few % of the human genome. People of the same family can have more genetic differences than people of the same race. Some biologists even question the concept of race. Usually only Nazi types will give credence to race and culture being the same...good excuse to start wiping out anyone who doesn't make the fuhrer's friend list.
My goodness your statement is worrying - I hope it's just a case of you not thinking it through and actually meaning people of the same race tend to share the same culture because of growing up around each other.
N.
Many people of the same race will tend to be of the same culture due to accident of birth and growing up in the same region as people who look and behave the same but that's it. If you say race and culture are the same you are saying that people of different skin colours behave differently because of their skin colour (because race is mostly a description of skin colour, hair and eye and nose shape)...and I earnestly hope that is not what you are suggesting because given what we call race makes up less a few % of the human genome. People of the same family can have more genetic differences than people of the same race. Some biologists even question the concept of race. Usually only Nazi types will give credence to race and culture being the same...good excuse to start wiping out anyone who doesn't make the fuhrer's friend list.
My goodness your statement is worrying - I hope it's just a case of you not thinking it through and actually meaning people of the same race tend to share the same culture because of growing up around each other.
N.
So tell me - is it better, in your opinion, to discriminate on race, culture or not at all?
May 9th 2011, 9:13 pm
#12
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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May 10th 2011, 2:27 am
#13
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
Re: More of less racist
I answer to nobody in my racism.........
.......... but, just for my own satisfaction - who the hell is Malcolm Little??
.......... but, just for my own satisfaction - who the hell is Malcolm Little??
May 10th 2011, 2:32 am
#14
Confirmed grumpy old man
Joined: May 2005
Location: Moved back to Riyadh KSA 2016
Posts: 1,298
