Lockerbie bomber freed

Old Aug 20th 2009, 3:31 pm
  #1  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: England, UK
Posts: 143
Amnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really niceAmnesia180 is just really nice
Default Lockerbie bomber freed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/au...omber-released

I'm actually speechless.
Amnesia180 is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 4:09 pm
  #2  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 820
Shadya is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by Amnesia180 View Post
Don't get your knickers in a twist, as it was most probably a miscarriage of justice anyway...see below;

In contrast, many British families supported his release on compassionate grounds, with many unconvinced that he was even partly responsible for the atrocity. Reverend John Mosey, whose daughter Helga, 19, died in the attack, said it was "right he should go home to die in dignity with his family".
Shadya is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 4:19 pm
  #3  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

There was always some doubt about the conviction, with the ongoing suspicion that he had been offered up by Gaddafi as a scapegoat in exchange for lifting various embargoes, etc.

This early release deal may in fact have been done quite some time ago.

The cancer thing intrigues me though................. "I've just found out I've got terminal cancer - I might as well plant a few bombs. Even if they convict me, once I reveal my illness, they'll no doubt let me out.............."
The Dean is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 5:22 pm
  #4  
A bubbly-jock...
 
MacScot's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Teneriffe
Posts: 6,262
MacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond reputeMacScot has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by Amnesia180 View Post
Why speechless ? Unless you wanted US justice system applied in the UK:

Scots justice: compassionate release of terminally ill long-term prisoners (e.g., Al Magrahi)

English justice: compassionate release of terminally ill long-term prisoners (e.g., Ronnie Biggs).

American justice - no compassionate release of long-term prisoners - let them rot and die in jail = vengeance !
MacScot is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 5:56 pm
  #5  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by MacScot View Post
Why speechless ? Unless you wanted US justice system applied in the UK:

Scots justice: compassionate release of terminally ill long-term prisoners (e.g., Al Magrahi)

English justice: compassionate release of terminally ill long-term prisoners (e.g., Ronnie Biggs).

American justice - no compassionate release of long-term prisoners - let them rot and die in jail = vengeance !
Quite................ not forgetting that many of the Guantanamo inmates were not only never tried, but were in many cases never even charged...........
The Dean is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 6:23 pm
  #6  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 110
ceres is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by MacScot View Post
Why speechless ? Unless you wanted US justice system applied in the UK:

Scots justice: compassionate release of terminally ill long-term prisoners (e.g., Al Magrahi)

English justice: compassionate release of terminally ill long-term prisoners (e.g., Ronnie Biggs).

American justice - no compassionate release of long-term prisoners - let them rot and die in jail = vengeance !

Would you still consider it vengeful if the prisoner in question had murdered you mum, dad, brother or sister?. If someone kidnaped raped and murdered your child would you not wish to see them left to rot in jail?
Vengeance...... I call it JUSTICE!
ceres is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 6:31 pm
  #7  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by ceres View Post
Would you still consider it vengeful if the prisoner in question had murdered you mum, dad, brother or sister?. If someone kidnaped raped and murdered your child would you not wish to see them left to rot in jail?
Vengeance...... I call it JUSTICE!
As I said, I'm sure a deal was struck some time ago.

As for the red herring about if it was "your own" mum, daughter, etc... that's why we have a judicial system. If the victim's relatives were left to administer justice, we'd be back to lynch mobs.

We do not need to listen to lectures from the Americans about justice - they put the rapist of a 9-year-old girl away for 20 years recently, while they put Bernie Madoff away for 150.

Ah yes, but this is easy to explain - Madoff's crime was related to money - the worst sin for an American............
The Dean is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 6:50 pm
  #8  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 110
ceres is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
As I said, I'm sure a deal was struck some time ago.

As for the red herring about if it was "your own" mum, daughter, etc... that's why we have a judicial system. If the victim's relatives were left to administer justice, we'd be back to lynch mobs.

We do not need to listen to lectures from the Americans about justice - they put the rapist of a 9-year-old girl away for 20 years recently, while they put Bernie Madoff away for 150.

Ah yes, but this is easy to explain - Madoff's crime was related to money - the worst sin for an American............
Please forgive my red herring! I just wondered, if it was your Mum, Dad, Brother or Sister who had been blown out of the sky you would still think it fair that he was allowed to spend his last few months on this earth with his family, when he didn't give you the chance to even say goodbye to yours. I am not a hard arse, but, I could never forgive someone if they took someone that i loved away from me. So yes I would want them to rot, then go to hell.
P.S I am not American, I am Scottish, so not trying to preach the American justice system to you.
As for rape case- Madoff, simply shocking!
ceres is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 6:55 pm
  #9  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 110
ceres is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
There was always some doubt about the conviction, with the ongoing suspicion that he had been offered up by Gaddafi as a scapegoat in exchange for lifting various embargoes, etc.

This early release deal may in fact have been done quite some time ago.

The cancer thing intrigues me though................. "I've just found out I've got terminal cancer - I might as well plant a few bombs. Even if they convict me, once I reveal my illness, they'll no doubt let me out.............."
Well when your dropping off your rucksacks, give me a call I can think of someone who I would love to send a little gift to.
ceres is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 8:47 pm
  #10  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by ceres View Post
Please forgive my red herring! I just wondered, if it was your Mum, Dad, Brother or Sister who had been blown out of the sky you would still think it fair that he was allowed to spend his last few months on this earth with his family, when he didn't give you the chance to even say goodbye to yours. I am not a hard arse, but, I could never forgive someone if they took someone that i loved away from me. So yes I would want them to rot, then go to hell.
P.S I am not American, I am Scottish, so not trying to preach the American justice system to you.
As for rape case- Madoff, simply shocking!
Clarification:

Wasn't accusing YOU of being American - just a comment about the Hillarys of this world.

I don't think there's an easy right or wrong to early release - there's a wider debate here: what is prison actually for? To punish? Or simply to protect society from those who would harm it? Or to turn the criminally-inclined into non-criminals?

Tough one.............
The Dean is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 9:09 pm
  #11  
Excess Baggage
 
littlejimmy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,479
littlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond reputelittlejimmy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Clarification:

Wasn't accusing YOU of being American - just a comment about the Hillarys of this world.

I don't think there's an easy right or wrong to early release - there's a wider debate here: what is prison actually for? To punish? Or simply to protect society from those who would harm it? Or to turn the criminally-inclined into non-criminals?

Tough one.............
It's all three, but the degrees each of them apply depend on the crime. It isn't black and white. You're also spot on about the red herring of "what if it was your family". Our modern justice system is applied dispassionately and is a whole lot fairer than most in the world.
littlejimmy is offline  
Old Aug 20th 2009, 10:44 pm
  #12  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 353
Worldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of lightWorldismine is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by ceres View Post
Would you still consider it vengeful if the prisoner in question had murdered you mum, dad, brother or sister?. If someone kidnaped raped and murdered your child would you not wish to see them left to rot in jail?
Vengeance...... I call it JUSTICE!
Was there ever any convictions, or a trial, or even condemnation for the people responsible for Iran Air Flight 655 ( Are u even aware of Iran Air 655?, probably not), incidentally that atrocity took place 5 months before the Lockerbie atrocity, that and the US bombings of Tripoli in 1986 undoubtedly motivated the Pan Am bombing. So what about the victims of these attacks, dont they deserve justice and sympathy? Or is mass murder ok when its the USA doing it?
Worldismine is offline  
Old Aug 21st 2009, 4:32 am
  #13  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 110
ceres is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by Worldismine View Post
Was there ever any convictions, or a trial, or even condemnation for the people responsible for Iran Air Flight 655 ( Are u even aware of Iran Air 655?, probably not), incidentally that atrocity took place 5 months before the Lockerbie atrocity, that and the US bombings of Tripoli in 1986 undoubtedly motivated the Pan Am bombing. So what about the victims of these attacks, dont they deserve justice and sympathy? Or is mass murder ok when its the USA doing it?
No, I am not aware of the Iran Air Flight 655 , but my opinion would be the same for those who were responsible for that atrocity as those responsible for the Lockerbie, regardless of their nationality.

I don't know enough on the subject to enter a political debate of the rights or wrongs of each countries justice system, however neither am I stupid enough to believe that when you take all the bull-shit out the equation, the early release had nothing to do with being 'compassionate' for a terminally ill prisoner, it was to do with being 'seen to be compassionate' to the oil rich nations of the world.......us Scots are decent and forgiving folks, now why don't we let bygones be bygones ...oh and about that wee plot of land we want to start drilling!

My friend lost her cousin on the Lockerbie flight, so my feelings on the subject are emotionally driven by the human loss and pain that this absolute fiasco, from the trial to the early release, has had upon those left to pick up the pieces. 270 innocents lost their lives it doesn't matter if you believe him innocent or guilty either way an injustice has been done to either him or the families of the 270 who died..........so no the Scottish justice system is not all that and a bag of toffee's.
Sorry.....
ceres is offline  
Old Aug 21st 2009, 4:48 am
  #14  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Inselaffen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Inselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond reputeInselaffen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

if there was serious doubt about his conviction he should have been acquitted. somone who murders 270 people does not deserve compassion and should have been left to rot there.
Inselaffen is offline  
Old Aug 21st 2009, 4:59 am
  #15  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Lockerbie bomber freed

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
if there was serious doubt about his conviction he should have been acquitted. somone who murders 270 people does not deserve compassion and should have been left to rot there.
He was handed over by Libya as a scapegoat as part of an admittedly very shoddy deal.....

.......... and we then put him on trial and find him NOT guilty?

The words "stock" and "laughing" come to mind.

I'm not happy with many aspects of the whole tragic business either, including his release, but I think we can for once happily resist American pressure.

It makes a change anyway - they want to extradite that McKinnon (?) guy with Asperger's Syndrome who hacked into the Pentagon computer systems. If found guilty, he'll go away for a Madoff-style sentence - they should be giving him a medal instead.

Justice..... can't live with it, can't live without it............
The Dean is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.