Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
Feb 6th 2008, 8:34 am
#16
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
Also the question, were they all "great footballers" ? We always hear about Duncan Edwards and what a magnificent player he was, and some of the others too, but were they all that good or were their reputations enhanced through an untimely death, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Kurt Cobain like, and therefore through rose tinted memories ?
Feb 6th 2008, 10:11 am
#17
Hammer for Life
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Too far away from Upton Park, for my liking !
Posts: 5,524
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
[QUOTE= The majority are the ones that let it happen and thus condone it with their inaction......... I remember going to the Leeds v Man Utd Youth Cup Final at Old Trafford in 1993. It was mainly youngsters in the crowd, but the majority element of Leeds "support" duly stood up throughout the match making aeroplane impersonations.
[/QUOTE] So I trust you stood up and said something to them to get them to stop, or did you just tut, .....thereby by 'condone" it ?
[/QUOTE] So I trust you stood up and said something to them to get them to stop, or did you just tut, .....thereby by 'condone" it ?
Feb 6th 2008, 1:46 pm
#18
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
Duncan Edwards was clearly the star player. From everything I have heard he would have gone on to be one of the greatest England players. The others were also top players of their time. Remember this was a young team that was going for its third successive League title.
Feb 6th 2008, 4:01 pm
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
I am not a typical football fan but it is very very sad.
Feb 6th 2008, 5:28 pm
#20
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
One cold and bitter Thursday in Munich, Germany,
Eight great football stalwarts conceded victory,
Eight men will never play again who met destruction there,
The flowers of English football, the flowers of Manchester
Matt Busby's boys were flying, returning from Belgrade,
This great United family, all masters of their trade,
The pilot of the aircraft, the skipper Captain Thain,
Three times they tried to take off and twice turned back again.
The third time down the runaway disaster followed close,
There was slush upon that runaway and the aircraft never rose,
It ploughed into the marshy ground, it broke, it overturned.
And eight of the team were killed as the blazing wreckage burned.
Roger Byrne and Tommy Taylor who were capped for England's side.
And Ireland's Billy Whelan and England's Geoff Bent died,
Mark Jones and Eddie Colman, and David Pegg also,
They all lost their lives as it ploughed on through the snow.
Big Duncan he went too, with an injury to his brain,
And Ireland's brave Jack Blanchflower will never play again,
The great Matt Busby lay there, the father of his team
Three long months passed by before he saw his team again.
The trainer, coach and secretary, and a member of the crew,
Also eight sporting journalists who with United flew,
and one of them Big Swifty, who we will ne'er forget,
the finest English 'keeper that ever graced the net.
Oh, England's finest football team its record truly great,
its proud successes mocked by a cruel turn of fate.
Eight men will never play again, who met destruction there,
the flowers of English football, the flowers of Manchester
Eight great football stalwarts conceded victory,
Eight men will never play again who met destruction there,
The flowers of English football, the flowers of Manchester
Matt Busby's boys were flying, returning from Belgrade,
This great United family, all masters of their trade,
The pilot of the aircraft, the skipper Captain Thain,
Three times they tried to take off and twice turned back again.
The third time down the runaway disaster followed close,
There was slush upon that runaway and the aircraft never rose,
It ploughed into the marshy ground, it broke, it overturned.
And eight of the team were killed as the blazing wreckage burned.
Roger Byrne and Tommy Taylor who were capped for England's side.
And Ireland's Billy Whelan and England's Geoff Bent died,
Mark Jones and Eddie Colman, and David Pegg also,
They all lost their lives as it ploughed on through the snow.
Big Duncan he went too, with an injury to his brain,
And Ireland's brave Jack Blanchflower will never play again,
The great Matt Busby lay there, the father of his team
Three long months passed by before he saw his team again.
The trainer, coach and secretary, and a member of the crew,
Also eight sporting journalists who with United flew,
and one of them Big Swifty, who we will ne'er forget,
the finest English 'keeper that ever graced the net.
Oh, England's finest football team its record truly great,
its proud successes mocked by a cruel turn of fate.
Eight men will never play again, who met destruction there,
the flowers of English football, the flowers of Manchester
Feb 7th 2008, 8:58 am
#21
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: the belfry
Posts: 183
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
and now after all this time a witness has come forward to say that he walked on the wing after the crash and it was ice free,
at the time a german crash investigator stated it was caused due to a build of of ice on the wings that made the plane crash.
it has also now transpired that the affore mentioned german did not arrive at the scene for some six hour's, so ice would have formed whilst it was on the ground.
so justice at last for the pilot.
and a very sad day for football i agree.
at the time a german crash investigator stated it was caused due to a build of of ice on the wings that made the plane crash.
it has also now transpired that the affore mentioned german did not arrive at the scene for some six hour's, so ice would have formed whilst it was on the ground.
so justice at last for the pilot.
and a very sad day for football i agree.
Feb 7th 2008, 11:43 am
#22
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
and now after all this time a witness has come forward to say that he walked on the wing after the crash and it was ice free,
at the time a german crash investigator stated it was caused due to a build of of ice on the wings that made the plane crash.
it has also now transpired that the affore mentioned german did not arrive at the scene for some six hour's, so ice would have formed whilst it was on the ground.
so justice at last for the pilot.
and a very sad day for football i agree.
at the time a german crash investigator stated it was caused due to a build of of ice on the wings that made the plane crash.
it has also now transpired that the affore mentioned german did not arrive at the scene for some six hour's, so ice would have formed whilst it was on the ground.
so justice at last for the pilot.
and a very sad day for football i agree.
The famous picture of the wreckage was taken less than one hour after the crash............. and there's an almost complete white-out.
Ice? Probably. Blinding snow storm? Without a doubt - the pilot couldn't see past the nose of the plane.
"Justice at last"? Wasn't aware of anything ever said that implicated the pilot. Have I missed something?
Insel?
Feb 7th 2008, 12:32 pm
#23
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
What the hell are you talking about?
The famous picture of the wreckage was taken less than one hour after the crash............. and there's an almost complete white-out.
Ice? Probably. Blinding snow storm? Without a doubt - the pilot couldn't see past the nose of the plane.
"Justice at last"? Wasn't aware of anything ever said that implicated the pilot. Have I missed something?
Insel?
The famous picture of the wreckage was taken less than one hour after the crash............. and there's an almost complete white-out.
Ice? Probably. Blinding snow storm? Without a doubt - the pilot couldn't see past the nose of the plane.
"Justice at last"? Wasn't aware of anything ever said that implicated the pilot. Have I missed something?
Insel?
and no I don't read the sun!
Feb 7th 2008, 1:20 pm
#24
Hammer for Life
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Too far away from Upton Park, for my liking !
Posts: 5,524
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
And one man in particular......... who would have still only have been 29 in 1966, and only 33 in 1970.........
Only saw him on film, but my dad (who knew his football) reckoned Edwards combined the best of Franz Beckenbauer with the best of Bobby Moore. Good enough. And Bobby Charlton rated him too.........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...td/7216050.stm
Only saw him on film, but my dad (who knew his football) reckoned Edwards combined the best of Franz Beckenbauer with the best of Bobby Moore. Good enough. And Bobby Charlton rated him too.........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...td/7216050.stm
Quote
"Without Munich 58 Manchester United would not be the club they are now...Fact !
They have cynically milked this for years and will continue to do so. If they're so bothered about it then why not have there own remembrance service allowing just fans in, without TV coverage, without corporate sponsors, just fans? I appreciate the vast majority of them would have to travel many miles to Manchester, that's if they could be bothered.
I find this all a bit to rich coming from the club that become the richess,most popular and most recognized in the world and a club that built it's foundations to become a footballing brand on the back of the Munich tragedy.
We all know that if you go to the club superstore at Old Trafford they are more than likely selling a 50th year anniversary DVD box set. "MUNICH.THE DAY THE CLOCK STOPPED.£19.99 inc P@P"
Now you are thinking i might be a bit out of line saying that. But ManU being the Brand that they are, you would'nt put it past them. Common courtesy dictate's i pay my respect's to the people who died in that crash
But maybe more than 8 players died at the end of that runway.
The monster that is the Brand was born out of this, and that is the biggest tradegy of all.
Unquote
Feb 7th 2008, 2:19 pm
#25
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
A rather cynical view I saw on a football board this afternoon, but in my opinion, there is a lot of truth in it.....
Quote
"Without Munich 58 Manchester United would not be the club they are now...Fact !
They have cynically milked this for years and will continue to do so. If they're so bothered about it then why not have there own remembrance service allowing just fans in, without TV coverage, without corporate sponsors, just fans? I appreciate the vast majority of them would have to travel many miles to Manchester, that's if they could be bothered.
I find this all a bit to rich coming from the club that become the richess,most popular and most recognized in the world and a club that built it's foundations to become a footballing brand on the back of the Munich tragedy.
We all know that if you go to the club superstore at Old Trafford they are more than likely selling a 50th year anniversary DVD box set. "MUNICH.THE DAY THE CLOCK STOPPED.£19.99 inc P@P"
Now you are thinking i might be a bit out of line saying that. But ManU being the Brand that they are, you would'nt put it past them. Common courtesy dictate's i pay my respect's to the people who died in that crash
But maybe more than 8 players died at the end of that runway.
The monster that is the Brand was born out of this, and that is the biggest tradegy of all.
Unquote
Quote
"Without Munich 58 Manchester United would not be the club they are now...Fact !
They have cynically milked this for years and will continue to do so. If they're so bothered about it then why not have there own remembrance service allowing just fans in, without TV coverage, without corporate sponsors, just fans? I appreciate the vast majority of them would have to travel many miles to Manchester, that's if they could be bothered.
I find this all a bit to rich coming from the club that become the richess,most popular and most recognized in the world and a club that built it's foundations to become a footballing brand on the back of the Munich tragedy.
We all know that if you go to the club superstore at Old Trafford they are more than likely selling a 50th year anniversary DVD box set. "MUNICH.THE DAY THE CLOCK STOPPED.£19.99 inc P@P"
Now you are thinking i might be a bit out of line saying that. But ManU being the Brand that they are, you would'nt put it past them. Common courtesy dictate's i pay my respect's to the people who died in that crash
But maybe more than 8 players died at the end of that runway.
The monster that is the Brand was born out of this, and that is the biggest tradegy of all.
Unquote
if the club was out to make money from it they would be selling the shirts they are wearing on Sunday!
just some bitter arsehole!
Feb 7th 2008, 2:33 pm
#26
Hammer for Life
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Too far away from Upton Park, for my liking !
Posts: 5,524
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
Dont you think though there is a degree of truth that the "attraction for Man Utd" today was born out of the tragedy ?
Feb 7th 2008, 2:42 pm
#28
Hammer for Life
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Too far away from Upton Park, for my liking !
Posts: 5,524
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
I cant imagine there were too many Man Utd fans living outside Manchester pre Munich 1958..... ?
Feb 7th 2008, 2:46 pm
#29
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,187
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
Not jealous at all, could think of nothing worse than supporting them !! However, in the same way some older football fans who supported other teams, developed a soft spot for West Ham as a result of the World Cup victory (Moore, Peters, and Hurst etc) in 1966, so too did the Munich tragedy "globalise" the name of Manchester United at that time and widen their appeal whether it be in England or around the world and more people became aware of them. I accept this was further enhanced through the likes of George Best and the like, but it must have started somewhere.
I cant imagine there were too many Man Utd fans living outside Manchester pre Munich 1958..... ?
I cant imagine there were too many Man Utd fans living outside Manchester pre Munich 1958..... ?
MM, xx
Feb 7th 2008, 3:23 pm
#30
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
Munich is an historical event inextricably linked with Man U as is Hillsborough and the Ibrox Disaster in Scotland.The advent of Man U's appeal preceded the Munich incident.............
Life is cheap it seems, however it takes a real stone faced cynic not to be touched by the immediateness with which so many young lives were snuffed out.Yes it has been brought to the forefront of our minds because of who they were and yes 50 0dd anonymous faces perish somewhere everyday in accidental/not so accidental circumstances.
Would you prefer that the Man U members were forgotten too?
If nothing else it should serve as a reminder-life is good and this ain't no rehearsal.
*When did Man U overtake Real Madrid as richest club?