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-   -   Lest we forget - 6 February 1958 (https://britishexpats.com/forum/sand-pit-116/lest-we-forget-6-february-1958-a-512097/)

The Dean Feb 5th 2008 9:16 pm

Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 
2 Attachment(s)
And one man in particular......... who would have still only have been 29 in 1966, and only 33 in 1970.........

Only saw him on film, but my dad (who knew his football) reckoned Edwards combined the best of Franz Beckenbauer with the best of Bobby Moore. Good enough. And Bobby Charlton rated him too.........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...td/7216050.stm

Inselaffen Feb 5th 2008 9:25 pm

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by The Dean (Post 5890717)
And one man in particular......... who would have still only have been 29 in 1966, and only 33 in 1970.........

Only saw him on film, but my dad (who knew his football) reckoned Edwards combined the best of Franz Beckenbauer with the best of Bobby Moore. Good enough. And Bobby Charlton rated him too.........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...td/7216050.stm

7.04 pm Dubai time tomorrow. :(

for me will be a moment of silence

Geoff Bent
Roger Byrne
Eddie Colman
Duncan Edwards
Mark Jones
David Pegg
Tommy Taylor
Liam Whelan
Walter Crickmer
Bert Whalley
Tom Curry
Alf Clarke
Don Davies
George Follows
Tom Jackson
Archie Ledbrooke
Henry Rose
Eric Thompson
Frank Swift
Kenneth Rayment
Bela Miklos
Willie Satinoff
Tom Cable

BangleMan Feb 6th 2008 2:59 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by Inselaffen (Post 5890765)
7.04 pm Dubai time tomorrow. :(

for me will be a moment of silence

Geoff Bent
Roger Byrne
Eddie Colman
Duncan Edwards
Mark Jones
David Pegg
Tommy Taylor
Liam Whelan
Walter Crickmer
Bert Whalley
Tom Curry
Alf Clarke
Don Davies
George Follows
Tom Jackson
Archie Ledbrooke
Henry Rose
Eric Thompson
Frank Swift
Kenneth Rayment
Bela Miklos
Willie Satinoff
Tom Cable

Just shows you how our football has changed...... God forbid, it were to happen to any Premiership team today, you would barely find an English name on the list, let alone any Bert's, Henry's, Archies, Don's, Walter's, or Duncans' !!!

The Dean Feb 6th 2008 3:18 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by Inselaffen (Post 5890765)
7.04 pm Dubai time tomorrow. :(

for me will be a moment of silence

Geoff Bent
Roger Byrne
Eddie Colman
Duncan Edwards
Mark Jones
David Pegg
Tommy Taylor
Liam Whelan
Walter Crickmer
Bert Whalley
Tom Curry
Alf Clarke
Don Davies
George Follows
Tom Jackson
Archie Ledbrooke
Henry Rose
Eric Thompson
Frank Swift
Kenneth Rayment
Bela Miklos
Willie Satinoff
Tom Cable

Thanks for the time check Insel - that's 6.04pm here (wasn't aware of the exact time). I'll join you in your tribute, so to speak - not a Manchester United fan, but this was too big for tribal loyalties to obscure.

Interesting to see Frank Swift in the list - a former Manchester CITY player who had become a sports journalist.

Grief is universal.

jvr20 Feb 6th 2008 3:45 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 5891890)
Just shows you how our football has changed...... God forbid, it were to happen to any Premiership team today, you would barely find an English name on the list, let alone any Bert's, Henry's, Archies, Don's, Walter's, or Duncans' !!!

isn't Duncan a Scots name?

The Dean Feb 6th 2008 3:58 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by jvr20 (Post 5892016)
isn't Duncan a Scots name?

Please don't trivialise this thread, JVR.

BangleMan Feb 6th 2008 4:30 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by The Dean (Post 5892061)
Please don't trivialise this thread, JVR.

I won't tell give you the words of the song sung by West Ham fans to Man U fans about it then !

jvr20 Feb 6th 2008 4:43 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 5892175)
I won't tell give you the words of the song sung by West Ham fans to Man U fans about it then !

are they more or less generally offensive than I'd rather be a Paki than a Jew ?

Inselaffen Feb 6th 2008 5:02 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by jvr20 (Post 5892214)
are they more or less generally offensive than I'd rather be a Paki than a Jew ?

its will probably be the usual sick Ice on the Runway song which shows the average mentality of football supporters.

I am sure there are man united supporters who sing sick things about Hillsborough as well!

Inselaffen Feb 6th 2008 5:14 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 5891890)
Just shows you how our football has changed...... God forbid, it were to happen to any Premiership team today, you would barely find an English name on the list, let alone any Bert's, Henry's, Archies, Don's, Walter's, or Duncans' !!!

what also shows the difference is that the 13 days after 8 of the 1st team died and most of the others suffered serious injuries the club played in the FA Cup. Cannot imagine that happening today.

BangleMan Feb 6th 2008 5:41 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by jvr20 (Post 5892214)
are they more or less generally offensive than I'd rather be a Paki than a Jew ?

About the same as far as offensiveness goes, but as ever the minority of football supporters who chant this stuff / use violence etc, soil the good name of 99% of people who go to watch a game for the love of their team, or the game itself....Cant see that ever changing unfortunately.

BangleMan Feb 6th 2008 5:48 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by Inselaffen (Post 5892318)
what also shows the difference is that the 13 days after 8 of the 1st team died and most of the others suffered serious injuries the club played in the FA Cup. Cannot imagine that happening today.

No, it wouldnt happen today, take a few weeks ago when Phil O'Donnel, captain of Motherwell died, as sad and as tragic that was, the midweek / weekend games were cancelled in the SPL......Begs the question....Are we more respectful of tragedies like that now as a nation, (and especially after Diana's death), than we were in the 50's when I guess the country was more hardened to such things, with the second world war still fresh in people's minds ?

jvr20 Feb 6th 2008 6:44 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 5892420)
No, it wouldnt happen today, take a few weeks ago when Phil O'Donnel, captain of Motherwell died, as sad and as tragic that was, the midweek / weekend games were cancelled in the SPL......Begs the question....Are we more respectful of tragedies like that now as a nation, (and especially after Diana's death), than we were in the 50's when I guess the country was more hardened to such things, with the second world war still fresh in people's minds ?

Also the question, were the team members who were in that fatal crash feted as great footballers, or as 'celebrities'? In those days I'd imagine that when they were in the papers it would have been about some goal they scored/saved/whatever, and not for roasting a teenager, or assaulting a bouncer inter alia. And at that time, the fan base was probably based in Manchester, not like now where the whole franchise is a corporate giant, but more about the football.

BangleMan Feb 6th 2008 6:52 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by jvr20 (Post 5892592)
Also the question, were the team members who were in that fatal crash feted as great footballers, or as 'celebrities'? In those days I'd imagine that when they were in the papers it would have been about some goal they scored/saved/whatever, and not for roasting a teenager, or assaulting a bouncer inter alia. And at that time, the fan base was probably based in Manchester, not like now where the whole franchise is a corporate giant, but more about the football.

Also the question, were they all "great footballers" ? We always hear about Duncan Edwards and what a magnificent player he was, and some of the others too, but were they all that good or were their reputations enhanced through an untimely death, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Kurt Cobain like, and therefore through rose tinted memories ?

benzonar Feb 6th 2008 8:15 am

Re: Lest we forget - 6 February 1958
 

Originally Posted by BangleMan (Post 5892384)
About the same as far as offensiveness goes, but as ever the minority of football supporters who chant this stuff / use violence etc, soil the good name of 99% of people who go to watch a game for the love of their team, or the game itself....Cant see that ever changing unfortunately.

I've never been convinced with this argument though, that it is only the minority that sully it for the majority.

The majority are the ones that let it happen and thus condone it with their inaction. I remember going to the Leeds v Man Utd Youth Cup Final at Old Trafford in 1993. It was mainly youngsters in the crowd, but the majority element of Leeds "support" duly stood up throughout the match making aeroplane impersonations.

Then a few years ago Liverpool fans wrecked Old Trafford and scrawled "Munich Ha Ha" everywhere during a FA Cup semi final match. It may have been a minority but from what I heard noone from the majority spoke up and attempted to stop them. They condone it with their silence.

Last week Lewis Hamilton receieved abuse from what the Spanish are dismissing as a "minority". Yet these people were still let into the circuit dressed as a poor version of the black and white minstrels, and allowed to do their stuff by the majority.

No doubt a "minority" of city fans will whistle and boo during this weekends minutes silence, their will be lots of tut tutting but very little done by the majority. As a great man once said, don't become so tolerant that you tolerate intolerance.


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