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Last 2 days on the bored...

Last 2 days on the bored...

Old Mar 13th 2018, 7:08 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope
It's actually Ó Briain, the original Irish (Gaelic) form of the name which in English is usually rendered O'Brien. It's pronounced Oh Bree-an.

What follows is some information on how Irish surnames are composed which is likely of interest to almost nobody so feel free to skip to the next post where IKN probably says something vaguely provocative but doesn't have the heart to be quite offensive...

The accent over the O in Irish is what makes it a long o sound. The O' thing with the apostrophe is a contrivance that probably arose when the names were transliterated into English. I'm not sure why, though at the time when we were all compelled to take "English" names (mainly during the 18th and early 19th centuries), written Irish had not yet been standardised so maybe that's how the accent was represented at the time? In the same way the Irish word Mac was usually abbreviated to "Mc" in the English form of the name.

All Irish male surnames start with either Ó, meaning from, or mac meaning son. The former was prevalent in the south and west of Ireland, the latter in the northern part of the island and Scotland (Scots Gallic is a dialect of Irish Gaelic from the time of the first millenium dal Riada kingdoms when it displaced the indigenous Pictish Celtic language).

Some names lost the prefix in transliteration. For example Murphy in Irish is Ó Murchú. Norman names even acquired an Irish form over the years; for example Fitzgerald in Irish is Mac Ghearailt. That is noteworthy because it renders the Fitz, which meant servant, as mac meaning son, likely reflecting the very democratic organisation of medieval irish society (leaders were elected from a hereditary ruling clan rather than appointed by primogeniture and there was high mobility among classes).

Unlike in the English form, the female version of the surname in Irish is different to the male as it reflects the feminine possessive case, which leads to sometimes significant changes in the main root name of the clan:
Dara Ó Briain's notional sister, Sorchadh, for example, would be Sorchadh Ni Bhriain - the h after the B requires it to be pronounced like a v so it sounds like "Nee Vree-an" for her name. Similarly Mac becomes Nic for females with the requisite change in the clan name to reflect the feminine possessive.

So now you know...

tl;dr - it's fun making up complicated shit to confuse hopelessly monolingual Anglos...
Potato.

Sorry. Yeah, I have enough trouble with Scottish Gaelic place names when I go to the Highlands and Islands.

Last edited by littlejimmy; Mar 13th 2018 at 7:11 am.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 7:13 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope
tl;dr - it's fun making up complicated shit to confuse hopelessly monolingual Anglos...
That's cool and everything but are you even Irish if your name isn't spelt Ghtxchriianicon but pronounced 'Gary'?
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 7:14 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope
It's actually Ó Briain, the original Irish (Gaelic) form of the name which in English is usually rendered O'Brien. It's pronounced Oh Bree-an.

What follows is some information on how Irish surnames are composed which is likely of interest to almost nobody so feel free to skip to the next post where IKN probably says something vaguely provocative but doesn't have the heart to be quite offensive...

The accent over the O in Irish is what makes it a long o sound. The O' thing with the apostrophe is a contrivance that probably arose when the names were transliterated into English. I'm not sure why, though at the time when we were all compelled to take "English" names (mainly during the 18th and early 19th centuries), written Irish had not yet been standardised so maybe that's how the accent was represented at the time? In the same way the Irish word Mac was usually abbreviated to "Mc" in the English form of the name.

All Irish male surnames start with either Ó, meaning from, or mac meaning son. The former was prevalent in the south and west of Ireland, the latter in the northern part of the island and Scotland (Scots Gallic is a dialect of Irish Gaelic from the time of the first millenium dal Riada kingdoms when it displaced the indigenous Pictish Celtic language).

Some names lost the prefix in transliteration. For example Murphy in Irish is Ó Murchú. Norman names even acquired an Irish form over the years; for example Fitzgerald in Irish is Mac Ghearailt. That is noteworthy because it renders the Fitz, which meant servant, as mac meaning son, likely reflecting the very democratic organisation of medieval irish society (leaders were elected from a hereditary ruling clan rather than appointed by primogeniture and there was high mobility among classes).

Unlike in the English form, the female version of the surname in Irish is different to the male as it reflects the feminine possessive case, which leads to sometimes significant changes in the main root name of the clan:
Dara Ó Briain's notional sister, Sorchadh, for example, would be Sorchadh Ni Bhriain - the h after the B requires it to be pronounced like a v so it sounds like "Nee Vree-an" for her name. Similarly Mac becomes Nic for females with the requisite change in the clan name to reflect the feminine possessive.

So now you know...

tl;dr - it's fun making up complicated shit to confuse hopelessly monolingual Anglos...
Fitz meant "son of" and not servant. Fitzgerald was son of Gerald. Just a useful FYI.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
Fitz meant "son of" and not servant. Fitzgerald was son of Gerald. Just a useful FYI.
Are you seriously arguing with someone from Ireland about that? (You're not Irish, are you?)
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 7:36 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope
tl;dr - it's fun making up complicated shit to confuse hopelessly monolingual Anglos...
LOL, if only you knew.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 7:46 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by littlejimmy
Are you seriously arguing with someone from Ireland about that? (You're not Irish, are you?)
Not a single drop of Irish blood, thankfully.

I do know the Normans used Fitz as "son of" and that's where it came from. And it was the Normans who brought it to Ireland.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 8:15 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
Not a single drop of Irish blood, thankfully.

I do know the Normans used Fitz as "son of" and that's where it came from. And it was the Normans who brought it to Ireland.

Hmm, a) why thankfully? b) are you really really sure???

On the Fitz thing you are probably right - that's what I get for over-extemporising. I guess what was in the back of my mind is the interesting difference between the English/Anglo-Norman Fitzpatrick and the Irish version, mac giolla Pádraig, which does mean son of the servant/slave of Patrick. What happened the servile bit in the Norman version?

And as for the incomprehensible spellings, I do recall the president of the students union during my days at UCD who was a shaggy-maned fire-brand with the equally distinctive and revolutionary moniker: Giolladhíosa Ó Lideadhthadh.

As somebody pointed out, it didn't quite have the same radical ring when he used the English form of his name: Giles Liddy. And in fairness, in his latterday career at the Irish bar (no, not McGettigans) he has simplified the Irish spelling in line with new standard Irish.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

And please let me pip IKN to the post with the reference to the well known versatile Irish homosexuals, Patrick Fitzgerald and Gerald Fitzpatrick....
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 8:40 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope
Hmm, a) why thankfully? b) are you really really sure???
a) Because I knew you would bite

b) Dull, boring, solid English stock as far as we can tell. Well. Except for the Swiss ancestor. But we don't talk about him. But he is probably the reason why the Germans always start talking to me in German whenever I go to Germany.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 9:46 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope
Giolladhíosa Ó Lideadhthadh.
Holy smokes. What a name.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 10:38 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Just had Nandos lunch.



Never again.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 11:11 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
Just had Nandos lunch.



Never again.
Holy ****ing shit.

You're going to have to do some serious trimming elsewhere if your weekly budget's going to cope with that expense.

What did you have to eat?
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 11:24 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Scamp
Holy ****ing shit.

You're going to have to do some serious trimming elsewhere if your weekly budget's going to cope with that expense.

What did you have to eat?
Some kind of chicken thighs stuffed with feta and served on skewers. It was half decent I'll admit but they had five! of them! Just for one person! Five entire thighs! Just for one person! And there were sides. Chips and spinach.

The spinach was the best part. I might go back just to order the spinach and diet coke for lunch. That'd do the trick.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 11:37 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH
Some kind of chicken thighs stuffed with feta and served on skewers. It was half decent I'll admit but they had five! of them! Just for one person! Five entire thighs! Just for one person! And there were sides. Chips and spinach.

The spinach was the best part. I might go back just to order the spinach and diet coke for lunch. That'd do the trick.
I don't believe for a minute you didn't finish it all or take it away.
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Old Mar 13th 2018, 11:40 am
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Default Re: Last 2 days on the bored...

Originally Posted by Scamp
I don't believe for a minute you didn't finish it all or take it away.
Had 3/5 and half the spinach and a third of the fries. Rest presumably is in the bin by now.
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