Norm_uk

Antisemitism (or more accurately, anti-Jewishness) is not the same thing as Jews are an ethnic group not a religion. Whilst hatred of them is derived from the theological arrogance of Christianity and Islam originally it has grown over the centuries into racism and hatred. Essentially both religions are simply unhappy with Jews because they refused to accept the bastardisation of their tribal, non-universalist belief by Muslims and Christians...because without the Jews on board they will always have a lack of validation.

The three Abrahamic religions are not the same and drive their own wedges between themselves. Only Islam claims to be the same as the others, and even goes as far as to claim the others must have changed their scriptures when they don't match with Islamic scripture. Even if you line up side by side every mention of the nature of god in these scriptures you see big differences...let alone doctrine, nature of salvation etc.

It is quite possible to love your family and friends and try to help people in need without believing in one god, two gods or any gods.

But this is what these religions teach. Christianity for example states there is no relationship between the light and the darkness (believer and unbeliever) and Islam's scriptures clearly teach not to take friends who are unbelievers.

So unless the scriptures are to be changed it makes more sense to do away with them...they are ridiculous. What kind of supreme being demands human worship, dictates punishments for who they sleep with, what they consume and who they pray or don't pray to? This is not spiritual - it's about controlling people.

It sounds to me like you want to have your cake and eat it....be part of one of these faiths and try to have everyone just get along. Did it ever occur to you that before Christianity and Islam people didn't really have wars over religion?

N.

WakeUp

The definition of Jew is "a person whose religion is Judaism". You might also wish to refer to the term Judaeophobia which has been around alot longer the Islamophobe, to my knowledge anyway. So I reitterate my point that Islam is not special in this respect.

I don't really want to be part of any faith personally, but I believe that people shouldn't be persecuted for their beliefs, or belittled because we either don't agree or don't understand. I agree that religion is / was about control for alot of followers, but to alot of followers it gives hope and guidance. Alot of people out there are too stupid to think for themselves and religion gives them guidelines.

Scripture can be interpreted in many different ways, hence the divisions within the major religions. If the heads of the major religions started to focus on the similarities between people rather than the differences, over time attitudes would soften.

People did not have wars over the major religions before they were invented, of course not. But there were still wars, mainly tribal, for example you don't belong to my group or think the same way I do therefore I must destroy you. What is so different?

I completely disagree with any form of persecusion or discrimination of any group based on age, sex, race, religion, creed, etc.

Meow

It's a shame that not all religions preach or practice that.

WakeUp

I agree they should, all of them.

sherri

My dear good friend Norm (cough...) –just kidding ,

I have never said/claimed that all cultures are equal

It is a fact that most western countries are refined as compared to the ‘third world and/or infrastructurally developed nations’, they have modernised their wits, are in favour of a moral and civilised system –whether they do what they preach consistently is a different story. The western culture is far more superior but it’s still work-in-progress but without a doubt its better than what it used to be not so long ago.

Our disagreement is on the fact that you mix religion with culture or blame religion for cultural demeanour whereas I don’t. I blame the cultures for bastardising the rational Abrahamic religions, there are a few things which may not look ‘rational’ from the onset but if you study without prejudice than you would understand the message/reasoning. Also, I’m in favour of giving the ‘third world’ cultures a wee bit more time to sort out its act and catch-up with its western counterparts, this will take some time and, in my view, the ‘third-world’ is generally doing better than the amount of time it took ‘the West’ to civilise – on this; I favour patience over your tyrannical cynicism

Also, I don't believe Atheism is the answer, it can help to facilitate a fresh start but it’s not a permanent solution, in fact from a personal experience Atheists are generally more narrow-minded, pessimistic and are mostly as stubborn as a mule – in short, intolerable .

Let’s just say you and I have different perspectives and there is nothing wrong with that

Meow

If one does not believe in any sort of god, what else could the answer possibly be?

I consider atheists to be utterly logical and rational. It's believing in an unproven deity that's irrational.

WakeUp

But if one does believe in God then one must also believe in the Devil. The Devil would like nothing more to see us all Atheists.

As an IFA didn't you have to sell your soul to the Devil along time ago?

Millhouse

The only solution is that we all believe in one God and all recognize no other.

Dammit, that doesn't work either.

We should just carpet bomb the ****ers.

sherri

You are obviously an exception Meow, sticking to rule no.1

I agree, so we shouldn’t accept “knowledge” on authority. It’s always a bad idea to lose the ability to question. The universe seems too complex, too ordered, too beautiful, to have appeared naturally. I had a personal experience that gave me enough evidence to believe in God i.e. my mother-in-law, I don't believe her existence is due to "hypothesis of the primeval atom".

sherri

MacScot

Would that be with their own Islamic design-influenced Persian carpets ?

norsk

Well actually the best possible solution would be that everybody get some sense and realise that religions were created many years ago as a way of explaining the unexplainable (ie where do humans come from?) and to stop people doing stupid things like killing each other and cheating on your wife, and that in todays society there is no longer a need for this kind of thing.

In fact you could argue that believing blindly in a religion in todays time of knowledge (and I mean any religion) is a sign of weakness and insecurity.

WakeUp

Are you sure that there is no role for religion in todays society?

Is it just coincidence that as people move away from religion we have more societal issues? Rising peadophilia, street crime, drug issues, "sexualisation of children", etc. I am not saying that religion will solve all of these problems, but it certainly can't hurt.

Many scientists and astronomers believe in God and religion for similar reasons as discribed in Sherri's earlier post. The world and universe is just too beautiful to be a coincidence IMO.

lullabelle

So they keep the kids with the slave mothers until they are seven - then what? Doesn't bear thinking about. Absolute *******, no actually they are total and utter ***** Seven is nothing. Seven is still a fabulous little being who needs his/her mum.

Slavery is SO alive and well around these parts. Slaves here are bringing up other people's kids and cleaning their houses and driving their cars andbeing generally mistreated in one way or another. When you read educated women arguing about whether or not to let their "helpers" go out, you realise how little some people count in the eyes of their owners/employers.

I know this doesn't mean every housemaid/gardener/driver or even construction worker is abused or enslaved. I know you (who have help) probably pay well, treat kindly and realise that these people are human. But you can't ignore what goes on here. It's something that truly wears me down. I've argued basic human rights with people here - western educated, supposedly intelligent - who treat their employees like shit. "oh but we're much nicer than locals" they wail, "their help don't get time off at all and work 20 hours a day and never go home. If we let her out/give her passport back/pay her better she'll just become a prostitute/run away/think we're soft and steal from us etc etc ad nauseum."

This whole place has been built on slavery - workers who don't get paid for months, have their passports confiscated, live in inhumane dumps. Sounds like slavery to me.

Jeez, and I'm in a good mood today too.

norsk

I don't think you can necessarily prove that any those things are a bigger problem today than what they were in the past. For example there have been plenty of paedophiles through all time and it is described in literature and philosophy writings, but it is only in the last 30 years or so that it has become a public concern. Street crime? Get real! Drugs? People have been drugging themselves through history to forget about their lousy lives. Claiming that this is getting worse due to lack of religion is ridiculous. In fact I don't believe for a second that it is worse today than what it was 1000 years ago, just that the drugs are different and perhaps more available.

In relation to the scientists and astronomers of course there are religious people amongst them. Why wouldn't there be? Are you saying that just because they understand some pretty complex things about life and the universe they cannot have doubts about the bigger picture? Religion is about explaining the unexplainable remember!!

All I am saying is that religion is less important today than what it was 2000 years ago, and since it actually creates more problems than it solves (which I know is a claim I cannot prove) I believe it would be better if it is abandoned as a concept. As a minimum I believe people should stop letting it run their lives...