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Justice for Natalie- Merged thread

Justice for Natalie- Merged thread

Old Jul 16th 2012, 5:38 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by LaLaLayla
Good idea, thanks Patsy. If you give it to me, I can pass it on. Thanks again.
will pm it to you darling when I find it xxx
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 5:54 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Patsy Stoned
will pm it to you darling when I find it xxx
Done xx
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:00 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Me: "Right, I want corporate buy-in for a world-wide block of all our group companies from using Kempinski and their related companies, because of their appalling treatment of one guest."
Corporate: "Sounds fair, if the treatment's really atrocious."
Me: "Yes, I wouldn't want one of our employees staying at any of their hotels if this is their attitude."
Corporate: "Fine. By the way, do you know the person involved?"
Me: "Not directly, no."
Corporate: "A friend of a friend, then."
Me: "Not exactly."
Corporate: "How do you know about the case, then?"
Me: "Er... I read about it on a social networking site."

Not real, but that's how I imagine it might go.

So, before I think about doing anything: any verifiable facts out there?
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:11 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

I'm all for boycotting Kempinski hotels - I do anyway but due to price

However, these things are never clear cut. Kempinski may not actually be responsible in this case...

Hotels are almost always built and owned by a different party to those who put their name on the front door. In this case, Emirates Palace is owned by the Government of Abu Dhabi and operated by Kempinski.

So, Kempinski inherited this building and all its faults and it has to live with them under the terms of the management contract. No doubt there is a latent defects clause in the management contract and they themselves are in a battle with the owner, who is in turn in battle with the contractor, who is - no doubt - in battle with the architect.

I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong. It's a fact of life - but boycotting and running a hate campaign against Kempinski probably isn't the right way to go about it. I personally would look to the owner.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:17 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

My understanding is that the hotel was found culpable but has gone to appeal.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:21 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Millhouse
I'm all for boycotting Kempinski hotels - I do anyway but due to price

However, these things are never clear cut. Kempinski may not actually be responsible in this case...

Hotels are almost always built and owned by a different party to those who put their name on the front door. In this case, Emirates Palace is owned by the Government of Abu Dhabi and operated by Kempinski.

So, Kempinski inherited this building and all its faults and it has to live with them under the terms of the management contract. No doubt there is a latent defects clause in the management contract and they themselves are in a battle with the owner, who is in turn in battle with the contractor, who is - no doubt - in battle with the architect.

I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong. It's a fact of life - but boycotting and running a hate campaign against Kempinski probably isn't the right way to go about it. I personally would look to the owner.
Regardless of Kempinski's right to claim from others, it is (I assume) Kempinski who (would have) accepted Natalie's payment for her stay at the hotel, so it is Kempinski that has liability to Natalie. No doubt Kempinski will have insurance and the right to claim that liability lays elsewhere, but that's nothing to do with Kempinski's liability (and, perhaps, moral obligation) towards Natalie. That said, Natalie may have a legal right against the owner and other parties (eg the maintenance company, if there is one), but I don't know how that aspect of law operates out here.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:22 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Meow
My understanding is that the hotel was found culpable but has gone to appeal.
The hotel or the operator? i.e. the real estate, or the manager? In which court? I'm curious...
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:25 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
Regardless of Kempinski's right to claim from others, it is (I assume) Kempinski who (would have) accepted Natalie's payment for her stay at the hotel, so it is Kempinski that has liability to Natalie. No doubt Kempinski will have insurance and the right to claim that liability lays elsewhere, but that's nothing to do with Kempinski's liability (and, perhaps, moral obligation) towards Natalie. That said, Natalie may have a legal right against the owner and other parties (eg the maintenance company, if there is one), but I don't know how that aspect of law operates out here.
Fair point BB - It's probably also fair to assume that the law here is ineffective on these points though...

I'd still run my hate campaign against the owner. Imagine the damage to the tourism effort you could do.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:29 am
  #54  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Millhouse
The hotel or the operator? i.e. the real estate, or the manager? In which court? I'm curious...
I don't have the details, but they must be available.


There are other ways of approaching the situation and I'll be following that up shortly. I don't think that angry posts on the hotel's FB page is the way to go. Better to deal with individuals and be human about it.

It's a sad situation, whatever the details, and this poor woman is very ill indeed. She's currently back in hospital in ICU.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:30 am
  #55  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Millhouse
Fair point BB - It's probably also fair to assume that the law here is ineffective on these points though...
I'd still run my hate campaign against the owner. Imagine the damage to the tourism effort you could do.
Equally fair point.

Yeah, right
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:32 am
  #56  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Millhouse

So, Kempinski inherited this building and all its faults and it has to live with them under the terms of the management contract. No doubt there is a latent defects clause in the management contract and they themselves are in a battle with the owner, who is in turn in battle with the contractor, who is - no doubt - in battle with the architect.
The contractor will not be in a battle with anyone at this point, after the owner has taken possession of the hotel and as the one year defects period is over the contractor is no longer responsible for these kind of items.
Structural and other guarantees will last longer but an item like described in the incident will purely be down to hotel maintenance. The structural, mechanical guarantees are sometimes also carried by decennial insurance backed by a supervising consultant during the construction and again not by the contractor.

For what its worth on the incident itself, I agree with Bahtatboy, we have no details, no actual reports of what happened, just a vague internet facebook campaign.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 6:34 am
  #57  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Many of us know people who are friends with this woman, so have no reason to doubt any of the details.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 7:37 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

What are Kempinski's grounds for an appeal?

Just looked at the FB page..what a shame, poor girl. I hope this is resolved.

It got me thinking as my wife has an illness that is rather unpredicatable..what point would we move back to the UK and the full support network..
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 8:16 am
  #59  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

It's a delicate one to cover, but working on some local press coverage now.
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Old Jul 16th 2012, 8:39 am
  #60  
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Default Re: Justice for Natalie

Originally Posted by Meow
Many of us know people who are friends with this woman, so have no reason to doubt any of the details.
Originally Posted by commander
What are Kempinski's grounds for an appeal?

Just looked at the FB page..what a shame, poor girl. I hope this is resolved.

It got me thinking as my wife has an illness that is rather unpredicatable..what point would we move back to the UK and the full support network..
why have you two got links to a clothing company on your posts? weird

Would Natalie not be better in the UK regards treatment costs? or is she not allowed to leave the Country for some reason?
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