Islam's war on freedom....
Feb 16th 2009, 9:01 am
#76
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Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Riyadh.
Posts: 1,899
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
I was responding to the previous poster's assumption that I was trying to make her 'believe'. I wasn't, I was debating.
Re: your response - I guess so, but for the most part (IME), the average lay person (lay-'believer'?!) doesn't go around telling people what to believe/declaring others are wrong/blah blah blah. They are too busy living their lives, although there are some, for sure, who take it upon themselves to spread the word, so to speak.
As for me: if people ask me for information, I give it willingly.
If misconceptions are aired in my presence, I try to clarify.
There's no compulsion in religion; it's impossible to make someone believe something. The nature of belief dictates that it is a personal choice, a completely individual experience.
Re: your response - I guess so, but for the most part (IME), the average lay person (lay-'believer'?!) doesn't go around telling people what to believe/declaring others are wrong/blah blah blah. They are too busy living their lives, although there are some, for sure, who take it upon themselves to spread the word, so to speak.
As for me: if people ask me for information, I give it willingly.
If misconceptions are aired in my presence, I try to clarify.
There's no compulsion in religion; it's impossible to make someone believe something. The nature of belief dictates that it is a personal choice, a completely individual experience.
Can't remember which poster commented ( in another thread ) but kinda hit the nail on the head. It was about having faith and believing something to be true rather than using logic and facts.
Having said that, one can always interpret 'facts' and 'logic' to suit oneself.
Personally, I am a person of faith and belief. I do not force it upon anyone else. As The Quran says, there is no complusion, people use their own free will.
Feb 16th 2009, 9:30 am
#77
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
Interesting, but I can't say that applies to me,
I grew up in London with a Jewish father and a Christian-turned-atheist mother. I was brought up with no real religion or even superstition tbh. I didn't believe in ghosts, magic or UFOs, for example. As a an adult I explored my own spirituality, various religions and questioned the purpose of my existence. I found my answers.
I was conditioned by no one, married well over a year after I 'found the meaning of life' (so to speak
) My dad doesn't even speak to me now. Accident of birth? I think not.
I live three thousand miles away from where I was born, in a place I never even thought I would visit, let alone live. In fact, if I wasn't Muslim, I wouldn't live here. It's nice and all that, but it wouldn't be where I would choose to spend my life.
AFAIK, there are Christians here, and Hindus. Tbh, if you were a super-practising Christian/Hindu/whatever, why would you choose to live in Saudi Arabia. Likewise for me, I can practise Islam in the UK, but I get a fuller experience of my faith here, which is why I moved here. I certainly don't expect England to change for me, change its laws or whatever.
I grew up in London with a Jewish father and a Christian-turned-atheist mother. I was brought up with no real religion or even superstition tbh. I didn't believe in ghosts, magic or UFOs, for example. As a an adult I explored my own spirituality, various religions and questioned the purpose of my existence. I found my answers.
I was conditioned by no one, married well over a year after I 'found the meaning of life' (so to speak
) My dad doesn't even speak to me now. Accident of birth? I think not.I live three thousand miles away from where I was born, in a place I never even thought I would visit, let alone live. In fact, if I wasn't Muslim, I wouldn't live here. It's nice and all that, but it wouldn't be where I would choose to spend my life.
AFAIK, there are Christians here, and Hindus. Tbh, if you were a super-practising Christian/Hindu/whatever, why would you choose to live in Saudi Arabia. Likewise for me, I can practise Islam in the UK, but I get a fuller experience of my faith here, which is why I moved here. I certainly don't expect England to change for me, change its laws or whatever.
And you're still a Muslim???
Feb 16th 2009, 9:35 am
#78
A bubbly-jock...
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Teneriffe
Posts: 6,262
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
Respect works both ways....
Feb 16th 2009, 9:47 am
#79
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Jeddah, KSA
Posts: 54
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
Yup, still a Muslim. Why, is that surprising? I don't intend to become Saudi-ised, if that's what you mean!
Feb 16th 2009, 10:47 am
#80
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,372
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
Not to experience it more intensely. It's obviously a lot easier here, and it's nice not being in the minority, which has had the effect of making me more relaxed than intense.
Yup, still a Muslim. Why, is that surprising? I don't intend to become Saudi-ised, if that's what you mean!
Yup, still a Muslim. Why, is that surprising? I don't intend to become Saudi-ised, if that's what you mean!
N.
Feb 16th 2009, 1:18 pm
#81
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Jeddah, KSA
Posts: 54
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
Bit of a long story.
The shortish version is that I couldn't believe that 'this' was all there was to life/my existence. 'This' being the rat race/treadmill pursuit of money/status/stuff/mortgage etc. All this stuff is on the surface of life, iygwim? I wanted to know the point, what's underneath, why are we here at all? This wasn't a consistent thought process, but I must admit, looking back, I always seemed to have had an in-built bullsh*t filter. (Just don't waste my time, alright? I'm too lazy to pursue pointless things!)
I had always believed in 'something'; I wasn't sure what. God is the closest word I suppose. But the way the belief systems portrayed God was in a way that wasn't 'God' like to me. God has to be...God? I don't know how else to explain it! In Arabic, the word for this intrinsic belief is 'fitrah' - it means like a natural status. You know the way people instinctively start to pray when they're in trouble? This sort of gut reaction.
I knew a little about Christianity from my mum/school; and whilst I thought it was a beautiful, sad story, the whole Jesus-died-for-you thing never rang true. I just didn't get it.
My mum not being Jewish, we were never accepted into my dad's family; so I thought - 'How can a religion be true if it's not open to the whole world?' I mean, where's the fairness in that?
I read the Upanishads and found the concepts of four levels of consciousness fascinating. I learned transcendental meditation as well. But Hinduism's in-built class system and sexism, again, made me think; it's just not fair! I won't be told I am better or worse than anyone else due to factors I can't control (being born a certain gender or into a particular social status. There was something lacking in all of them; good things in all, but huge gaps too.
I knew of Muslims (I always felt a bit sorry for Muslim women actually) but knew little of their belief system. When I read about it for myself it resonated with me, and made utter sense. I have to emphasise that I approached it with no cultural bias; I have little interest in Arab/Morrocan/Somali/Algerian/Turkish/whatever culture.
Islam, without cultural influence, made perfect sense to me. I'm going to shut up now, though;I don't want to be accused of being a kitaab-basher.
That wasn't very short was it
The shortish version is that I couldn't believe that 'this' was all there was to life/my existence. 'This' being the rat race/treadmill pursuit of money/status/stuff/mortgage etc. All this stuff is on the surface of life, iygwim? I wanted to know the point, what's underneath, why are we here at all? This wasn't a consistent thought process, but I must admit, looking back, I always seemed to have had an in-built bullsh*t filter. (Just don't waste my time, alright? I'm too lazy to pursue pointless things!)
I had always believed in 'something'; I wasn't sure what. God is the closest word I suppose. But the way the belief systems portrayed God was in a way that wasn't 'God' like to me. God has to be...God? I don't know how else to explain it! In Arabic, the word for this intrinsic belief is 'fitrah' - it means like a natural status. You know the way people instinctively start to pray when they're in trouble? This sort of gut reaction.
I knew a little about Christianity from my mum/school; and whilst I thought it was a beautiful, sad story, the whole Jesus-died-for-you thing never rang true. I just didn't get it.
My mum not being Jewish, we were never accepted into my dad's family; so I thought - 'How can a religion be true if it's not open to the whole world?' I mean, where's the fairness in that?
I read the Upanishads and found the concepts of four levels of consciousness fascinating. I learned transcendental meditation as well. But Hinduism's in-built class system and sexism, again, made me think; it's just not fair! I won't be told I am better or worse than anyone else due to factors I can't control (being born a certain gender or into a particular social status. There was something lacking in all of them; good things in all, but huge gaps too.
I knew of Muslims (I always felt a bit sorry for Muslim women actually) but knew little of their belief system. When I read about it for myself it resonated with me, and made utter sense. I have to emphasise that I approached it with no cultural bias; I have little interest in Arab/Morrocan/Somali/Algerian/Turkish/whatever culture.
Islam, without cultural influence, made perfect sense to me. I'm going to shut up now, though;I don't want to be accused of being a kitaab-basher.
That wasn't very short was it
Feb 16th 2009, 6:03 pm
#82
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Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 758
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
The only interest I have in Islam is trying to get an Emirati muslim girl to be my "girlfriend". 
Feb 18th 2009, 8:52 am
#83
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 1,936
Re: Islam's war on freedom....
Bit of a long story.
The shortish version is that I couldn't believe that 'this' was all there was to life/my existence. 'This' being the rat race/treadmill pursuit of money/status/stuff/mortgage etc. All this stuff is on the surface of life, iygwim? I wanted to know the point, what's underneath, why are we here at all? This wasn't a consistent thought process, but I must admit, looking back, I always seemed to have had an in-built bullsh*t filter. (Just don't waste my time, alright? I'm too lazy to pursue pointless things!)
I had always believed in 'something'; I wasn't sure what. God is the closest word I suppose. But the way the belief systems portrayed God was in a way that wasn't 'God' like to me. God has to be...God? I don't know how else to explain it! In Arabic, the word for this intrinsic belief is 'fitrah' - it means like a natural status. You know the way people instinctively start to pray when they're in trouble? This sort of gut reaction.
I knew a little about Christianity from my mum/school; and whilst I thought it was a beautiful, sad story, the whole Jesus-died-for-you thing never rang true. I just didn't get it.
My mum not being Jewish, we were never accepted into my dad's family; so I thought - 'How can a religion be true if it's not open to the whole world?' I mean, where's the fairness in that?
I read the Upanishads and found the concepts of four levels of consciousness fascinating. I learned transcendental meditation as well. But Hinduism's in-built class system and sexism, again, made me think; it's just not fair! I won't be told I am better or worse than anyone else due to factors I can't control (being born a certain gender or into a particular social status. There was something lacking in all of them; good things in all, but huge gaps too.
I knew of Muslims (I always felt a bit sorry for Muslim women actually) but knew little of their belief system. When I read about it for myself it resonated with me, and made utter sense. I have to emphasise that I approached it with no cultural bias; I have little interest in Arab/Morrocan/Somali/Algerian/Turkish/whatever culture.
Islam, without cultural influence, made perfect sense to me. I'm going to shut up now, though;I don't want to be accused of being a kitaab-basher.
That wasn't very short was it
The shortish version is that I couldn't believe that 'this' was all there was to life/my existence. 'This' being the rat race/treadmill pursuit of money/status/stuff/mortgage etc. All this stuff is on the surface of life, iygwim? I wanted to know the point, what's underneath, why are we here at all? This wasn't a consistent thought process, but I must admit, looking back, I always seemed to have had an in-built bullsh*t filter. (Just don't waste my time, alright? I'm too lazy to pursue pointless things!)
I had always believed in 'something'; I wasn't sure what. God is the closest word I suppose. But the way the belief systems portrayed God was in a way that wasn't 'God' like to me. God has to be...God? I don't know how else to explain it! In Arabic, the word for this intrinsic belief is 'fitrah' - it means like a natural status. You know the way people instinctively start to pray when they're in trouble? This sort of gut reaction.
I knew a little about Christianity from my mum/school; and whilst I thought it was a beautiful, sad story, the whole Jesus-died-for-you thing never rang true. I just didn't get it.
My mum not being Jewish, we were never accepted into my dad's family; so I thought - 'How can a religion be true if it's not open to the whole world?' I mean, where's the fairness in that?
I read the Upanishads and found the concepts of four levels of consciousness fascinating. I learned transcendental meditation as well. But Hinduism's in-built class system and sexism, again, made me think; it's just not fair! I won't be told I am better or worse than anyone else due to factors I can't control (being born a certain gender or into a particular social status. There was something lacking in all of them; good things in all, but huge gaps too.
I knew of Muslims (I always felt a bit sorry for Muslim women actually) but knew little of their belief system. When I read about it for myself it resonated with me, and made utter sense. I have to emphasise that I approached it with no cultural bias; I have little interest in Arab/Morrocan/Somali/Algerian/Turkish/whatever culture.
Islam, without cultural influence, made perfect sense to me. I'm going to shut up now, though;I don't want to be accused of being a kitaab-basher.
That wasn't very short was it
Very interesting,
I came to know a phipino man who was a University instructor and was teaching phylosophy and on top of that i think he was doing some kind of work in a church ... right now he is in Abu Dhabi as a muslim and as far as i know many christains go to him to learn about islam and become muslims too.
