The Dean

... the "Noes" appear to have it.

For the first time in my life I feel like thanking the Irish for something.......

Now will the Eurocrats finally wake up to the fact that the vast majority of people across the EU don't want the single superstate that the Constitu...... er, sorry, I mean the Treaty would have opened the door to?

Probably not - shamefully, it will be decided that Ireland is 'too small' to decide the future of the Soviet EUnion, and the whole bloody thing will soon come round again.

Gordon Brown - I hope you are utterly ahamed of your party's u-turn on your manifesto pledge of a UK referendum.........

shakh your bootie

Personally, I am in favour of a European Federation but only if supported by a referendum in each member state.... But the Irish as saviours of Europe? I like it.

The Dean

All federations fall apart sooner or later...... usually with bloodshed (USSR, Yugoslavia, etc). They cause more wars than they are supposed to prevent.

People want small independent sovereign states to call their own.

shakh your bootie

Isn't the USA a federation, no?

Small, largely independant, states with freedom to self-govern but with an overall regulatory framework. A bit like the human body - the various organs are largely independent, but with an overall regulatory system providing overall control.

In fact, a strong argument for Europe is that it provides an alternative power-base to the USA - a consolidated European military task force would be a good thing, I believe.

Eva

Course you do.You have an excellent sense of humour

shakh your bootie

I am a serious person....

Eva

Um Deja Vu?

shakh your bootie

Ibn kalachakra?

The Dean

But a far higher level of autonomy is granted to states by the US federal goverment than you will ever get in the EU.

And even something that should have been uncontroversial - the single currency - is a failure because you simply cannot have one identical interest rate across so many different types of economy. It was implemented by politicians against all economic logic - bit like the EU itself really........

And..... "Amusing Euro-Related Story From The Financial Markets No 427".
Investment funds and pension funds are refusing to invest in government bonds issued by the likes of Greece, Estonia, etc..... because they fear they will be worthless if/when the whole monetary system falls apart - they are insisting on German, French, etc...... snigger........

Officially of course they are all the same, but..........

Grace O Malley

[QUOTE=The Dean;6463494]... the "Noes" appear to have it.

For the first time in my life I feel like thanking the Irish for something.......

For the first time? There are many things to thank the Irish for

The Dean

[QUOTE=annacarna;6464520] Just teasing my love..........

Actually Ireland has done very well over the years from the EU (financially I mean) - which means in effect getting subsidies from Brussels that are made up from contributions from mainly German and British taxpayers........... not that I'm bitter or anything!!!???

Most important is that it's nice to see that even communities that have 'done well' out of the EU are still willing to resist the march to federalism.

Well done Ireland.

Eva

[QUOTE=The Dean;6464576]
Do you mean Eire?

Inselaffen

[QUOTE=annacarna;6464520] Guiness!

it appears a vote for deocracy in the EU

but the EU will effectively ignore the Irish result. They will offer some opt outs to Ireland such as maintaining neutrality and it will be put to the vote again, It happened before with Denmark and will surely happen again.

shakh your bootie

[QUOTE=Inselaffen;6464832] The most remarkable thing about the Lisbon treaty is that nobody seems quite sure as to what it is and what it is not.... Tried reading it and the eyes glazed over before the first paragraph.......

Inselaffen

[QUOTE=shakh your bootie;6465800] its quite amusing how they seem to have simply rebranded the constitution a Treaty.