redShark

India is also a democracy, in fact it is called the greatest democracy in the world because of the size of its population. For your information India too can claim most of those points you’ve listed. So why India is not the same as the west? what is the missing link? You would need a great effort to convince me that had the West not been filthy rich, its current situation would’ve been the same as present India, not culture wise but system wise.

Bipat

Not sure which post I am replying to 49 or 53?
If 53 isn't it against forum rules to alter a quote?

Why is India described as a ****shambles?? What reason?????
The world's largest democracy, recent successful general election with a population of a billion!!

Yes the previous Congress government was corrupt so--- there has been a new government peacefully elected.

All the other points in post 49 are there. Of course there is too much poverty which reduces opportunities, this is gradually reducing.

Certainly some of the riches of the West (the UK) were obtained by looting India during empire rule. 65 years on India has finally got rid of the legacy and the Nehru dynasty.

(They had an advanced civilisation when the Westerners were painting their cave walls)

Some of the poorest least educated people travel from India to work in the Middle East are you judging the entire 28 states of India by these people???
I imagine the poorest, least educated people from UK or USA don't really give a genuine picture of the whole country if those are the only people you meet.

Bahtatboy

Let's start with corruption. If you think that a change of government has ended, or will end in the near future, the near-pandemic corruption, then you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Then let's move to state-sponsored apartheid.

Actually, that's enough. Those two things alone warrant the description.

As to having had an ancient culture 2,000 years ago or more--so what?

Bipat

The new government can hardly end all corruption in a few weeks!!
The nepotism regarding government posts has already ended.

Corruption was a down-travelling phenomenon --'he charged me so I charge you'. It will take time to eradicate.

What do you mean by state-sponsored apartheid??

mikewot

The endemic raping, the lack of toilets and even the most basic sanitation, the lack of clean water, the casual racism. I could go on, apart from KSA India is the other country I will never visit.

scrubbedexpat141

I think India, from an outside perspective of living in a city where the population is at least 40% Indian and having two Indian lads sat next to me talking, the following is fairly sensible and reasonable. India is not comparable to Western Europe in every area.

I'm sure this could be torn apart and changed to highlight issues we face, but fundamentally:

• A secure place to live I wouldn't let my mrs go many places in India alone.
• Self-sufficiency in food production and water Apart from the rural areas without sanitation and plentiful supply of clean water
• Freedom of religion Fair enough.
• Freedom of speech and thought Fair enough.
• Freedom of sexual orientation Not sure India has this in swathes but I'll let it go.
• Rule of law Unless you slip the man some cash. Yes, the Mumbai Prizefighter in my office claims it's normal
• Absence of slavery or practices equivalent to slavery Not sure India has slaves, so let it go.
• Democratic institutions Nope, corrupt government replaces corrupt government. The head of the central bank was recently being looked at because of bribery allegations.
• Universal suffrage Yep, can't argue.
• Universal education I'm sure there are some issues but like anywhere else.
• Equal opportunities, regardless of gender, race or religion Caste.
• Absence (or minimal existence) of corruption Hahahahaha.
• Abundant cultural opportunities accessible to all Absolutely.

the_red_sheep

I have a friend who visited India last year on a work trip. On her daily trip to and from her “5-star� hotel and the best embassy school in Delhi she used to play a game of ‘spot how many adults you see sh1tting in the street’. There may have been an advanced civilisation in India 2,000 years ago, but something's gone quite wrong since.


And some of India’s best and finest travel to the Middle East as well. Anyone who lives and works here is very likely to encounter Indian’s from all social and educational backgrounds. It’s still easy to understand why India ‘works’ the way it does.

shiva

As I said I have met one or two, befriended more than a couple and work with a few every day. I'm not judging a people in any way although you can see my remarks above about the richer assholes.

What I am stating is that India as a nation is in fact a ****ing shambles.

A shambles of its own creation, created through a succession of useless governments, endemic corruption and a political system thats frankly a ****ing joke.

A billion people deserve far better but thats not the point in question.

By any measure India is a shambles and no matter how patriotic an indian you talk to only those most willing to lie to themselves would tell you that it isnt

mikewot

Unicef have made a video to try and educate Indians that shitting in the streets is not a good thing.
Video: Unicef’s Army of Singing, Dancing Poop - TIME
Even the Prime Minister recognises it:
Narendra Modi, India's prime minister, today spoke of his shame at the treatment of its women and poor standards of hygiene and public sanitation.

In his first Independence Day speech as prime minister, Mr Modi delivered a passionate call for Indians to value the role of women in the country, to stop aborting female foetuses, and build a cleaner country where women don't have to leave their homes to go to the lavatory or face violence and rape.

Speaking from the Red Fort in Delhi's old walled city, he outlined his vision of an inclusive India free of religious and sexual violence, a growing manufacturing economy which benefits the poor, and a country where government officials arrive on time for work.

I'm ashamed of rape and poor sanitation in India, says Narendra Modi - Telegraph

Cypselos

But then to every Australian I've ever met who doesn't live there the greatest country on earth is Australia.

Bipat

Difficult to know where to start with so many authoritative opinions given by posters who have never been to India or have met just one or two Indian people, or read the Daily Mail !!!
Yes well off Indians bankers etc do go to Middle East to work, I would still say that those you meet in this way are not 'typical'.

India is a very large country 28 states, each as different as a European country, do you condemn entire Europe because you dislike one of its countries. Yes the big cities have slum areas and the villages have not progressed as they should have with sanitation and other facilities.

Yes, of course I did listen to Mr Modi's speech, Mikewot, much needs to be done. Rape has been in the news because of a dreadful gang rape, and increased reporting of rape since. The new Minister is changing the law to reduce the age of criminal responsibility to 16 years.

Abortion the overall number percentage of abortions is less than UK.
For the very poor a daughter with the costs of wedding etc can be crippling, contraception is expensive. How many girls in UK use morning after pill? thought by some as a form of contraceptive.

Obviously poverty is the key and the middle classes are growing rapidly
Shiva you can see the difference in dress and possessions all the time and the increased number of Indian tourists to other parts of their country. As you say there is a long way to go.

Women, there are certainly equal opportunities, at one time there was a higher percentage of women doctors and lawyers in India than in UK. Certainly more needs to be done for poorer women to continue to higher education.

The political system, why do you call it a joke Shiva??
Do you get NDTV where you are suggest you watch it.

Bribery in the courts, yes it happens in the lower courts not the High Courts or Supreme Court.

Castism is illegal, of course it still exists to some extent, as does classism everywhere. Indian peoples names indicate their origins of area, class etc.
The new prime Minister started as a 'tea vendor'.

Scamp bribery investigation of bank chief, yes, British banks?? Christine Lagarde IMF???? it happens.

The British, such nonsense Shiva again. British took goods, wealth, jewellery, why else were they there??? The Princes were used against each other an the Brits took their stuff!!!
Famines occurred and were ignored. Personel were used in the world wars.
Certainly there was apartheid then, the 'natives' kept in their place.
Suggest you read about it and speak to older Indian people who remember it.

norsk

Yep. There are 'one or two' Indians in the ME, and they are not all bankers. In fact most are definitely not.

Anyway. You are a good laugh so stick around, but please turn down the 'India is great' soundtrack playing in the background.

Bahtatboy

As per Shiva's comment: A direct quote from one of them was "we can't use him, those people (said with an obvious note and tone of distaste) from that part of India are all thieves and lairs". I have heard exactly the same words from an Indian HR Manager working for a large western-based multinational. This was from an "educated" woman with, allegedly, two masters degrees. To compound matters, the company in question (both at local level and at HQ) did ****-all about it, despite the matter being reported. So much for large companies' compliance policies.

Irishbeekeeper

I hate to admit it but in just two of my years here, I have also met with quite a number of Indians (I am from the IT field so yeah) and I can safely say atleast 50% of them were very rasict. Btw an interesting read :
Did you know Burnes Road was named after a British spy-doctor? - Blogs - DAWN.COM

Bipat

I think you have quoted 3 people there out of the billion!!! But yes such comments frequently are heard by Gujarati people about Tamils, by Tamils about Gujaratis (Just as examples), it is human nature to criticise other places. France is this Greece is that etc.

As to companies, why do you think the new government had a landslide victory? get rid of corruption and mismanagement at all levels. It will take time and certainly if they fail the BJP will never again form a government in our lifetime.