Hard Out Here

Old Nov 17th 2013, 9:42 am
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Default Hard Out Here

http://www.theguardian.com/music/201...e-video-racist


Is Lilly's new video racist? I can't even see how it could be...

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Old Nov 17th 2013, 10:26 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

I don't get it.

Isn't it a bit like saying that Chinese restaurants are racist because they prefer to employ Chinese staff? Positive discrimination?

Just because the best people at a specific type of dance are from X skin tone / race / whatever, doesn't make it racist.

I'm neither here nor there on Allen, but if it was an all white dance crew would anyone have ****ing noticed?
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

I think Suzanne Moore's piece bears reading http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ut-here-racism Black female friends don't like it and I get why.

It's far from the worst culprit in the world of music videos, some of which are stunningly sexist and racist, but if irony was intended it doesn't work and for most this will be seen on the same level of all the videos Allen says she is parodying.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 10:33 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I don't get it.

Isn't it a bit like saying that Chinese restaurants are racist because they prefer to employ Chinese staff? Positive discrimination?

Just because the best people at a specific type of dance are from X skin tone / race / whatever, doesn't make it racist.

I'm neither here nor there on Allen, but if it was an all white dance crew would anyone have ****ing noticed?

Somebody would have. The accusation is that it looks as if the white woman is in control of the black and asian women. She is fully dressed and they are writhing around in their underwear.

It should be irrelevant, but until the world is rather fairer then such matters will upset people.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 10:38 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Somebody would have. The accusation is that it looks as if the white woman is in control of the black and asian women. She is fully dressed and they are writhing around in their underwear.

It should be irrelevant, but until the world is rather fairer then such matters will upset people.
But there are white dancers doing twirking too. The bigger issue for me is that it's a shite track.

Last edited by Millhouse; Nov 17th 2013 at 10:40 am.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 10:40 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

On the subject of twirking and racism. I do like how the white chick at 2 mins in wins. Of course, I was shocked that such competitions exist

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Old Nov 17th 2013, 10:51 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Somebody would have. The accusation is that it looks as if the white woman is in control of the black and asian women. She is fully dressed and they are writhing around in their underwear.

It should be irrelevant, but until the world is rather fairer then such matters will upset people.
I think the biggest problem is that people go looking for issues.

Why is it acceptable for a rapper to release a song where the entire chorus is "my n****r" repeated over and over and over?

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, I just think that Morgan Freeman has a point;

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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:01 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I think the biggest problem is that people go looking for issues.

Why is it acceptable for a rapper to release a song where the entire chorus is "my n****r" repeated over and over and over?

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, I just think that Morgan Freeman has a point;

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2TgyUEXUAM...man+Racism.jpg
Is such a song acceptable? Really?

Yes, Freeman has a point, but there is still far too much racism in the world and whilst no group is exempt, as 'wealthy' (by global standards) whitish folk (as I think most board memebers probably are) we certainly have it easier. I think that those of us who are fortunate in life ought to pick up on discimination for those who can't always so do themselves.

Life is not fair and never will be, but we can at least try and level the playing field a little so people are not discriminated against simply due to things they can't change such as colour or gender. (Surgery not withstanding, but that's a whole other issue.) Discriminate against people for being willfully ignorant, lazy, bigoted or unpleasant instead.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:02 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Is such a song acceptable? Really?

Yes, Freeman has a point, but there is still far too much racism in the world and whilst no group is exempt, as 'wealthy' (by global standards) whitish folk (as I think most board memebers probably are) we certainly have it easier. I think that those of us who are fortunate in life ought to pick up on discimination for those who can't always so do themselves.

Life is not fair and never will be, but we can at least try and level the playing field a little so people are not discriminated against simply due to things they can't change such as colour or gender. (Surgery not withstanding, but that's a whole other issue.) Discriminate against people for being willfully ignorant, lazy, bigoted or unpleasant instead.
This is exactly why I was so pleased to see the white trash win the twerking competition.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:07 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
This is exactly why I was so pleased to see the white trash win the twerking competition.
Twerking just looks horrible, cheap and nasty. Anyone suggesting that is is 'empowering' on a feminist level is talking bullshit too.

Can't we all go back to doing a nice waltz or foxtrot?
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:32 am
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Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Twerking just looks horrible, cheap and nasty.
You do not understand.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:38 am
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Originally Posted by Millhouse View Post
You do not understand.
Admittedly I am perhaps not as keen as you to see women's backsides waggled around.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:51 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Is such a song acceptable? Really?

Yes, Freeman has a point, but there is still far too much racism in the world and whilst no group is exempt, as 'wealthy' (by global standards) whitish folk (as I think most board memebers probably are) we certainly have it easier. I think that those of us who are fortunate in life ought to pick up on discimination for those who can't always so do themselves.

Life is not fair and never will be, but we can at least try and level the playing field a little so people are not discriminated against simply due to things they can't change such as colour or gender. (Surgery not withstanding, but that's a whole other issue.) Discriminate against people for being willfully ignorant, lazy, bigoted or unpleasant instead.
I agree with all of that, but it's Lily Allen. I mean, she probably had nothing to do with the selection, someone just picked the people who could best shake their arses from the pool they had auditioning on that day.

I haven't heard the song, just watched the video. I can guarantee there are music videos which are more degrading to women than this one, let alone if it can be even considered racist.

Perpetuating racial stereotypes is something that is done everywhere, by comedians, musicians, idiots, smart folk. I think people should spend effort writing / complaining / talking about other more serious issues than if Lily Allen's producer picked too many White/Black/Yellow/Pink/Green/Cream/Orange women to dance a certain dance.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:54 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here



A girl explains about twerking.


Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Twerking just looks horrible, cheap and nasty. Anyone suggesting that is is 'empowering' on a feminist level is talking bullshit too.

Can't we all go back to doing a nice waltz or foxtrot?
Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Admittedly I am perhaps not as keen as you to see women's backsides waggled around.
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Old Nov 17th 2013, 11:58 am
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Default Re: Hard Out Here

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I agree with all of that, but it's Lily Allen. I mean, she probably had nothing to do with the selection, someone just picked the people who could best shake their arses from the pool they had auditioning on that day.

I haven't heard the song, just watched the video. I can guarantee there are music videos which are more degrading to women than this one, let alone if it can be even considered racist.

Perpetuating racial stereotypes is something that is done everywhere, by comedians, musicians, idiots, smart folk. I think people should spend effort writing / complaining / talking about other more serious issues than if Lily Allen's producer picked too many White/Black/Yellow/Pink/Green/Cream/Orange women to dance a certain dance.
As I said earlier "It's far from the worst culprit in the world of music videos, some of which are stunningly sexist and racist, but if irony was intended it doesn't work and for most this will be seen on the same level of all the videos Allen says she is parodying."
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